Edge Holding

F

fshaw

Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
165
Of all the production folding knives which one that you own holds the superior fine edge longest and what is the steel? Many will cut for a long time once the fine edge dulls, D2 has a reputation for this. For me it would probably have to be a Gayle Bradley in M4. One of the bigger disappointments I've had was a CF Stretch in ZPD-189. I've not had an M390 knife yet and am looking at that steel. I next one to be a real edge holder, toughness is not that important to me. I'm looking hard at the Ritter RSK1 so any specific real experience with that particular knife is appreciated.

Thanks.

Frank
 
Honestly, none of the steels I've used have held a hair popping edge noticeably longer than the others. If I wanted a screaming sharp edge all the time I would actually reach for something in BD1, 12c27, 52100 or 13c26n. None of those hold a working edge for a terribly long time compared to the higher end PM steels in my collection, but they all seem to take a very fine edge very quickly.

For a working edge that lasts I haven't used anything better than S110V, though M4 and M390 both do very, very well.
 
Probably my Super Blue Endura or HAP40 Delica from Spyderco. I think ease of maintenence is more important than edge holding up to a point.
 
Interesting to me. 144 views at this point, and only two replies. One for no real difference and one for I'd just as soon touch them up as have one that held a fine edge for long periods. Kind of makes you wonder why we spend so much money on the "super steels."

Kwon and Insipid. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Frank
 
Hey Frank!
I have a bunch of different 'super' steels from a few different manufacturers.
Most are used at work....HVAC.
I'd have to say the best I've found would be a toss up between Spydie's s110v on a Para 2, Benchmade's m390 on a 710-1401 and Benchmade's M4 on a 908-1501. I haven't let them get very dull however, they hold a screaming edge for a while.
Honorable mention goes to s30v and s35vn.
I have found vg10 dulls very quickly and stopped carrying it for work.
YMMV but hope this helps.
Joe
 
Kwon Kwang said:
Probably my Super Blue Endura or HAP40 Delica from Spyderco. I think ease of maintenence is more important than edge holding up to a point.
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Agree on the HAP40 Delica :thumbup:
A lot of people love the ZDP189, but I cannot for the life of me put a decent edge on it.
 
Honestly I prefer my knife to be quick and easy to sharpen when I need it, because I can usually just bring the edge back real quick then use the knife. But if not I might as well get something else to cut with and deal with sharpening my knife later.
So I prefer bucks 420hc, but my little neck knife that I made from a hobby file is about as easy.to sharpen but seems to hold an edge just a little longer and it get used the most. ( I don't know the exact steel, but it was listed a bearing steel )
 
Fallkniven' s GP & PXL- Wh folders in Lam CoS (laminated cobalt special) steel. I have come to like this steel above all others. It holds its edge very well, it's relatively easy to sharpen especially compared to today's super(pain in the ass)steels & it's response to stropping is phenomenal. Stuff cuts like a laser after a few passes on my Billy Strop. Wish I still had the GP, but only have the volcano model in the Lam CoS now and love it. The Kolt model is a small fixed(about 3.5" blade) that is a great edc knife.
 
fshaw said:
Interesting to me. 144 views at this point, and only two replies. One for no real difference and one for I'd just as soon touch them up as have one that held a fine edge for long periods. Kind of makes you wonder why we spend so much money on the "super steels." ...
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I don't own a lot of knives in exotic steel. A few in M4, D2, S35VN and S30V if any of those are still considered "super" these days. Seems like after a new steel formulation is used for a couple of years it's no longer considered new and super and something else comes along for everyone to get gaga about. I'm perfectly happy with 440C, VG-10, 154CM and such like. I know those other knives hold a usable edge longer but it really doesn't matter to me. My favorite knives are favorites because of the whole package of design and materials.
 
Like many others, I have sampled different steels to try to gain a benefit in use and sharpening. Unfortunately, the results haven't been as dramatic as I'd hoped.

If Ankerson showed a steel could cut three times the rope, I hoped it might last three times as long before sharpening, and that hasn't happened. Part of it is my own tolerance: sharpening and stropping more often than needed. Who doesn't like a just-sharpened edge? It's hard to judge retention when you strop at the end of the day after even moderate use. And once you have a decent diamond sharpening setup, even the super steels aren't much different than 1095.

I have noticed the most difference in kitchen knives. Japanese Arogami Super knives are noticeably harder and ground thinner than Western knives. They perform better (slice cleanly with less pressure), last noticeably longer, and really sharpen best with waterstones.
 
fshaw said:
One of the bigger disappointments I've had was a CF Stretch in ZPD-189.
Frank
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I have actually had great experience with my Syderco DragonFly in ZPD-189. It interesting how different peoples experience with the same steel type can be so different. Sometimes I wonder if the same steel type from two different manufacturers is not really exactly the same.
 
fshaw said:
Interesting to me. 144 views at this point, and only two replies. One for no real difference and one for I'd just as soon touch them up as have one that held a fine edge for long periods. Kind of makes you wonder why we spend so much money on the "super steels."



Frank
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The problem is this question seems to get posted every other week. ;)

And with that there are too many variables involved and all of them are user related more so than steel related.

That is were perception starts to take hold.

Then there is the question of what a person thinks sharp is.

And how much sharpening talent they have.

How they use the knife is also a large factor.

All of these are user related.

Then start throwing in the urban legends on top of all of that.

The bottom line really is unless a person has the capability to accurately measure levels of sharpness with a tool that is accurate and has repeatable results to begin with then how would they really know the difference between the different steels in the 1st place?

The answer to that is they don't.

So buy the knife that you like, learn how to sharpen and maintain it to what you think is sharp.
 
Sorry if this seems like a repeat post that's seen every other week, I hadn't seen it before and won't bother you with anything like it again. Ankerson you come across to me as extremely arrogant in your post, and while you may be considered the zen master of testing here, to presume I am another keyboard warrior "deploying my flipper" unable to use or sharpen a knife is a shallow assumption on your part. I won't debate credentials with you, but while I am not a knife tester I am a knife user in the outdoors where I get paid to work. I asked what was to me a legitimate question. Maybe instead of posting this guestion I should have just watched your knife test and review videos where every question I could possibly have has already been answered. Problem is I usually don't spend much time cutting piles of cardboard or shaving piles of rope. When's the last time you used a knife to put an animal in a pack?

To the rest of you sorry for the rant.
 
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Ankerson said:
And with that there are too many variables involved and all of them are user related more so than steel related.
That is were perception starts to take hold.
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I was kind of thinking the same thing. I've owned a lot of knives but the 2 that seem to hold a keen edge the longest are my Benchmade 913 Stryker and my Spyderco Manix 2 M4. Both of these were bought used. The Stryker came with a polished somewhat-convexed edge. The Manix 2 I sharpened myself. These are good knives with good steel, but I have plenty of good knives with good steel. So my selection of these 2 is somewhat based on my very unscientific perception.
 
bdmicarta said:
I was kind of thinking the same thing. I've owned a lot of knives but the 2 that seem to hold a keen edge the longest are my Benchmade 913 Stryker and my Spyderco Manix 2 M4. Both of these were bought used. The Stryker came with a polished somewhat-convexed edge. The Manix 2 I sharpened myself. These are good knives with good steel, but I have plenty of good knives with good steel. So my selection of these 2 is somewhat based on my very unscientific perception.
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I know what you mean. :D

Don't get to use my folders much anymore like I used to so most of my use these days is with fixed blades in the kitchen.

For me personally it's S110V in the Custom fixed blade that I use, it's the 1st knife I pick up, stays very sharp for a very long time.

That's my real world use these days.
 
I had a shiro in m390 with a 17° edge that I dream about.(sold it) handled all of my cutting tasks (paper, cardboard, zip ties, urban stuff) and the edge was not bothered. Picked up another in s90v and its from the factory with a polished edge. Not impressed. I've been debating if I want to give the knife a shot and sharpen it to a more acute angle or sell it factory edge intact and find another m390! I carry a smaller knife in my left pocket. I rotate a native in 30v and a strider pt also in s30v(I think?) they have the same edge angle on them by me but the performance is night and day. The native is very easy to sharpen but dulls super fast while the pt performs very well. Mind you I'm not in the woods doing fun stuff so my use may be considered light or very light in your world. I also had an Endura zdp that worked better for me with a toothier edge than polished. I hope more people chime in. This is the first time I searched for a thread like this and found one that wasn't from years ago! Lulz.
 
As some have mentioned already, among those of us who aren't dedicated "knife testers" it's really just about perception. With that in mind, these are my perceived observations.

M390 and CPM-20CV have held that keen edge the longest for me. I found 20CV easier to sharpen, but that might be because there was a several month lapse between owning and sharpening the two steels. Maybe my sharpening skills just got better. I haven't owned any M4 yet, so can't really compare there.

I tend to lean towards the side of preferring steels that are easier to sharpen, because I do like to always have a keen edge. A working edge that lasts forever is of little interest to me. I think what generally separates people into either of those categories is what they use their knives for. Folks like me who are using their knives for general EDC stuff probably tend to prefer a super keen edge and easy to touch up steel. Folks who use their knives for hard work all day long are probably going to prefer the steels that hold an edge longer, even if they take longer to sharpen. That's understandable.
 
I'm honestly surprised so few people have mentioned M390. While I have no experience with S110V which is known to hold an edge better, M390 is known for its insane edge holding along with surprising ease of sharpening. Unlike S110V M390 does balance toughness and edge retention (unless S110V is a lot tougher than I thought), so while it isn't Elmax tough, it holds high marks for super high end stainless steels.

In my experience M390 has been much easier to sharpen than S30V, holds the edge at full sharpness like S30V holds a working edge (obviously with diminishing sharpness as it wears), and has impeccable corrosion resistance. It is one of my favorite steels.
 
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