Edge Pro Apex..... just got it and need help

B

buckhorn70

Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
12
I just got my EP Apex and I have been playing with a small pocket knife on the unit. I am having trouble getting a consistent grind angle thru the length of the blade. Especially where the straight part of the blade starts to curve to the tip. Any tips?
 
are you keeping the edge straight with the stone this is important,after a few blades it will open up for you easy....good luck
 
If you are careful to keep the edge at about the same distance from the end of the table, you'll probably see that your angle is consistent, but the original one was not. Most knives have a steeper grind angle near the tip than further away from it. Your bevel will widen out as you get near the tip, unless your knife doesn't have much belly and does have a lot of distal taper.
 
sodak said:
If you are careful to keep the edge at about the same distance from the end of the table, you'll probably see that your angle is consistent, but the original one was not. Most knives have a steeper grind angle near the tip than further away from it. Your bevel will widen out as you get near the tip, unless your knife doesn't have much belly and does have a lot of distal taper.
Click to expand...

Sodak is correct!

Here is my first small Sebenza that I did on the EP as my 2nd knife...wasn't the smartest idea since I got decent results on my Delica4. Figured, "Ok, we got a nice thinned out even bevel on the delica, I got the hang of this...PSH the EP is easy....OK LETS DO THE SEBENZA!!!" The whole goal was to be able to match the 30/40 settings on my Sharpmaker for touchups. I think I did this on the 15 or 18 setting...as we can see the results are MUCH steeper then what was expected. :)

DSC00561.jpg



Since then, I have done a several small rebevels here and there, and as you can see, the results are better....however, the bevel still widens up at the tip.... This was done around the 21 setting.

Second Sebenza...
DSC00886.jpg

DSC00888.jpg



It really bothered me at first...I mean come on! I screwed up my even bevels on the both of my Sebenzas....WTH is wrong with me!?!?!?!

Eventually, I saw the light...I use my knives...and you learn to appreciate a thinned out edge! :thumbup:
 
Those are some beautiful edges! I'll bet it cuts like a laser!

Personally, the widening of the edge doesn't bother me. If you think about it, it's really a function of both the blade width v.s. the blade thickness as you move from the handle to the tip, and the rate of distal taper. I'd rather have a consistent edge angle then a consistent edge bevel.
 
In order to avoid the changing bevel angle you need to turn the blade a little toward you as you sharpen the tip. If you have the Edge Pro video, you can see how this is done.
 
Sodak is spot on... where a bevel widening is sometimes thought to be the result of the angle changing, it is sometimes due to the profile of the knife. Smaller knives similar to those shown move into thicker metal as you move toward the tip. If a knife is sharpened freehand, or with a fairly high grind that usually comes stock, it is either compensated for, or not very noticable. But since the EP maintains a constant angle, when bevels are lowered it will start to show up.

There are a couple of apporaches to address this. KnifeOutlet has one, move the knife so that the knife remains more inline with the stone arm. The 2nd option available is if the knife has a profile that Sodak described, and also has a really curved belly. If you set the knife straight across the blade table, or you can even angle it down (so the tip is pointing away from you more), so that the belly of the knife drops away as soon as it clears the edge of the table, this will slightly shorten the distance to the pivot, and will result in a slightly higher angle. It's not much, usually within a degree or two, but it will help it blend a little better. I've included a pic I made for another post a while back, that somewhat illustrates this. (You could angle the knife away more if the blade was thicker. This knife was fairly thin). As you become more familiar with the EP, you'll feel the difference in angle change as you sharpen various knives. You can also make a pass or two, see where you're hitting on the blade, and adjust accordingly. What you want to avoid is holding the knife stationary, with the handle of the knife against the table, and the tip extended way off to the side.

EP_DontMoveTheKnife.jpg
 
sodak said:
Those are some beautiful edges! I'll bet it cuts like a laser!

Personally, the widening of the edge doesn't bother me. If you think about it, it's really a function of both the blade width v.s. the blade thickness as you move from the handle to the tip, and the rate of distal taper. I'd rather have a consistent edge angle then a consistent edge bevel.
Click to expand...

krazichinaman said:
Sodak is correct!

Here is my first small Sebenza that I did on the EP as my 2nd knife...wasn't the smartest idea since I got decent results on my Delica4. Figured, "Ok, we got a nice thinned out even bevel on the delica, I got the hang of this...PSH the EP is easy....OK LETS DO THE SEBENZA!!!" The whole goal was to be able to match the 30/40 settings on my Sharpmaker for touchups. I think I did this on the 15 or 18 setting...as we can see the results are MUCH steeper then what was expected. :)

DSC00561.jpg



Since then, I have done a several small rebevels here and there, and as you can see, the results are better....however, the bevel still widens up at the tip.... This was done around the 21 setting.

Second Sebenza...
DSC00886.jpg

DSC00888.jpg



It really bothered me at first...I mean come on! I screwed up my even bevels on the both of my Sebenzas....WTH is wrong with me!?!?!?!

Eventually, I saw the light...I use my knives...and you learn to appreciate a thinned out edge! :thumbup:
Click to expand...


I am getting a nice angle like yours...it is having a consistent or smooth surface the length of the blade. I was starting with a couple of small pocket knives for practice and will admit I got a little better tonight but still not satsfied. I either need more practice or small knives are hard to do.
 
BuckHorn70
I have much of the same problem, I contacted Ben @ Edgepro and let me share his email:
Gary,

You will always get a wider bevel at the tip of most knives because as the edge moves toward the back of the knife the blade gets thicker. So the angle is not changing. Take a caliper and measure the back of the bevel and you will see that where the bevel is wider the knife is thicker. Then everyone is trying to sharpen these thick blades at way to low an angle for the thickness of the blade. Like on a Sabenza, when you are resting on the flat, or face of the blade, the knife is tilted toward the stone, which lowers the angle. So for instance if you are sharpening at 21 on the Edge Pro you are putting about a 16 to 18 degree angle on the knife which is way to low. The lower you go the more it exaggerates the wide bevel at the tip and the more impossible it becomes to get a really good edge on the knife.

Ben

Edge Pro Inc.
P.O. Box 95
Hood River, OR 97031
541-387-2222

Gary
 
Edge Pro is the tops!
Great piece of equipment and backed up by expert advice.
It took me a little while to get "handy" with it.
 
krazichinaman,

Could you list the sequence of stones and/or other devices used to get that beautiful miror finish on your Sebenza? And, how long did it take?
 
After practicing I think I have discovered my problem with the inconsistent "smoothnes" of the edge....... I was letting the knife tilt foward on the thin part of the blade. What I mean is where the blade gets thinner toward the edge the knife had a tendancy to rock back and forth changing the angle.
 
What grit stone do most people use to reprofile?

I bought my edge pro used and the coarsest stone is a 220 and it is pretty darn slow. I haven't used it hardly at all because of how slow it reprofiles which is the main reason I bought it.

It would be nice to have an extra coarse diamond stone to really take the metal off quickly but they are nearly the price that I paid for the Edgepro.

If anyone has a suggestion other than the Edgepro stones I would like to hear but hopefully it won't be too expensive. I was thinking of putting a Fallkniven D4 and mounting it on a blank. Any other thoughts? Is the D4 very coarse and will it be faster than what the coarse Edgepro stone will do?

Thanks!
 
You can get a 120 grit stone (mounted or unmounted) from Ben Dale at Edge Pro which will be more aggressive and quicker when reprofiling.

Other options are diamond hones, Norton Crystolon (silicon carbide) and water stones.
 
jagger67 said:
krazichinaman,

Could you list the sequence of stones and/or other devices used to get that beautiful miror finish on your Sebenza? And, how long did it take?
Click to expand...



Sure,
I used my Edge Pro 3 kit and went through the whole stone set, 120,220,320,600,1000. Finished it off on some 3000 grit polishing tapes. The first Sebenzas finish wasnt as good as the second. I would guess that it took me about an hour to 1.5 hours from start of rebeveling to final polishing. :thumbup:
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
What grit stone do most people use to reprofile?

I bought my edge pro used and the coarsest stone is a 220 and it is pretty darn slow. I haven't used it hardly at all because of how slow it reprofiles which is the main reason I bought it.

It would be nice to have an extra coarse diamond stone to really take the metal off quickly but they are nearly the price that I paid for the Edgepro.

If anyone has a suggestion other than the Edgepro stones I would like to hear but hopefully it won't be too expensive. I was thinking of putting a Fallkniven D4 and mounting it on a blank. Any other thoughts? Is the D4 very coarse and will it be faster than what the coarse Edgepro stone will do?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


I would like to know about the D4 too, as I have cheap and easy access to it compared to DMT stones. Is it coarse enough for efficient reprofiling to bother mounting it on a blank? I can't find any good, specific specs/info. on the Fallkniven diamonds.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
What grit stone do most people use to reprofile?

I bought my edge pro used and the coarsest stone is a 220 and it is pretty darn slow. I haven't used it hardly at all because of how slow it reprofiles which is the main reason I bought it.

It would be nice to have an extra coarse diamond stone to really take the metal off quickly but they are nearly the price that I paid for the Edgepro.

If anyone has a suggestion other than the Edgepro stones I would like to hear but hopefully it won't be too expensive. I was thinking of putting a Fallkniven D4 and mounting it on a blank. Any other thoughts? Is the D4 very coarse and will it be faster than what the coarse Edgepro stone will do?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The Fallk D3/4 diamonds are 25 microns (~700x). The coarse Edgepro stone is 220x so it should cut faster than the D4. However, I have heard of people experiencing 1000x diamond (the EZE Lap Superfine stone sold by Edgepro) cutting faster than 220x, but only when the diamonds are new and aggressive. After they're broken in, they slow down and cut truer to their actual grit rating.
 
Noobie here

I just got a Kershaw Ken Onion Spec Bump. I've seen photos where the Edgepro worked up a polished edge on shallow recurves but can it do that on something like a spec bump? Should I send it to Edgepro and see what they can do before I get an Edgepro?

** I contacted Edgepro and they said it can be done and send it in so I can see the results. Quick reply, I sent the email this evening and already got a reply :)
 
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aikidoka said:
Noobie here

I just got a Kershaw Ken Onion Spec Bump. I've seen photos where the Edgepro worked up a polished edge on shallow recurves but can it do that on something like a spec bump? Should I send it to Edgepro and see what they can do before I get an Edgepro?

** I contacted Edgepro and they said it can be done and send it in so I can see the results. Quick reply, I sent the email this evening and already got a reply :)
Click to expand...

Sending it in to EP is great idea before buying a system, just to make sure. I just ordered an EP a few days ago and have been wondering and researching about how it will handle recurves. The Spec Bump is in my future at some point, so please let me/us know how it works out for you.

Ben at EP is amazingly quick and thorough with his replies. I knew that before buying his system, and that kind of customer service is definitely one of the reasons I committed to the purchase of such a (relatively) pricey setup.
 
KarlMaldensNose said:
Sending it in to EP is great idea before buying a system, just to make sure. I just ordered an EP a few days ago and have been wondering and researching about how it will handle recurves. The Spec Bump is in my future at some point, so please let me/us know how it works out for you.

Ben at EP is amazingly quick and thorough with his replies. I knew that before buying his system, and that kind of customer service is definitely one of the reasons I committed to the purchase of such a (relatively) pricey setup.
Click to expand...

Here is what Ben said about the re-curve and 1/2" stones.

The only thing I am not sure of is if you will need the 1/2 wide stones for the re-curve, I am thinking yes.​

He was confident the Edgepro could sharpen this blade easily.

I just shaved my arm a bit with the Spec Bump. I didn't think a factory edge would do that. I might be able to shave my face just by looking at it if I get a polished edge. :D

I'm probably going to wait a bit until I'm sure I can afford the Edgpro and also for the blade to get a bit of use since it is so sharp now. I don't want to have him sharpen it and then have it be awhile before I can purchase, doesn't seem fair to me.
 
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