edge pro users please step in, needing advice

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hemi1300

Joined
Sep 9, 2013
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so i decided to order the edge pro apex 1 along with an additional 600 and 1000 grit stones, and 2000 polishing tape with blank. After a few days of trying to get the perfect edge I'm still struggling a bit. Can get the edge sharp enough to shave hair and slice paper decent (tearing the paper more than cutting sometimes), but still can't get it as sharp as the factory edge on my spyderco paramilitary 2, any advice to get that last bit of hair popping sharp edge? When i go through the stones starting with 220, 400, 600 , and 1000-I sharpie the edge every stone swap to make sure i am contacting the edge right. My confusion is how do u know when u need to pop the next higher grit stone in? I feel as if i am doing the process the same as the vids, apply pressure on the push stroke and lightly drag it back, but just can't get fantastic results yet. Have watched all the vids on edgepro's site but don't have the dvd, would the dvd be worth it or is it just all the vids i already watched. Was also thinking about ordering the ceramic hone and 3000 grit tapes-would these 2 items give me that perfect edge i'm looking for?
 
DVD is not really worth it. The key thing to do before changing stones is feel for a burr. As soon as you stone is creating a burr on one side then do the other side, once a burr appears on the second side you are good to swap to a higher grit. I recently bought two more accessories for my EP and it truly changed my game, a drill stop collar and an angle cube. With those two accessories you will be able to have truly precise angles (look for Mad Rookie's vidoe on YT for details) . Honestly I wanted to go back and re-do all of my previous knives once I saw what I could do with those two things. Good luck once you get the hang of it you will be VERY happy.
 
Sounds to me like you either didn't raise a burr, or you didn't get rid of the burr after raising one up. A properly done edge off the 220 grit stone should slice paper cleanly. You work one side until you feel the burr along the entire length of the edge by dragging your fingers off the opposite side. Wherever you can't feel the burr is where you need to focus on. If you feel the burr along the entire length of the edge, flip the knife over and repeat on the opposite side. When you've raised a burr on the opposite side, flip the knife over to the first side and give it 2 light strokes, then flip and repeat. This will remove the burr/wire edge.

You then repeat this with the finer stones. But since it's harder to do this past the 400 grit, you can continue to use the sharpie trick, though a loupe would be better. I typically would grind on the finer stones until the scratch marks from the previous stone is gone and won't get any finer. Proper progression should leave you with a mirror edge starting on the 600 grit stone.
 
I can only relate what works for me.

I don't use any pressure at all on either the push or pull stroke past 320 grit. Just the weight of the stone arm.

My edges have improved significantly since starting this.
 
Thank you for the responses and advice. Definitely think I am not raising a burr properly on both sides. Will continue to work on my technique and hopefully get it right soon
 
Until you have fully apexed the edge, you won't know what sharp really is. I labored under the idea that finer was sharper for SO MANY years! It's not the same thing. Sharp and smooth are two different things. Both interesting. Sharp comes first. Get that, then move on if you want to.

Brian.
 
Ok, will do. So If I get a properly "apexed" edge on the 220 stone it should cut paper effortlessly?
 
A properly apexed 220 will cut paper easily.

I'll vote "Yes" for the ceramic hone and polishing tapes. The hone is good to touch up knives and make sure the burr is gone when using only 220 or 320 stones. The polishing tapes are fun to experiment with for mirror edges. The tapes are so much cheaper than waterstones and will last a reasonable time with care.

Good sharpening,
Dave
 
To me this sounds like your not apexing properly. You need to be sure that you have apexed on both sides of the bevel before moving on. There are other things that can go wrong too. Having the blade wobble a bit will cause you to take your edge off in one stroke.

I would advise against counting strokes and only using pressure on the push or pull stroke as some people advise. Use the same light pressure both ways. Light pressure being the key words. let the stones do the work. They will always win.

Honestly i wouldnt bother with the polish tapes. Theres a huge aftermarket of high quality stones. Shaptons Choseras and Nubatamas. The polish tapes just seem too finnicky to me. Also as you get higher in the EP lineup the jumps in abrasive size get quite large. A minor point but worth noting.

Even a 5 piece shapton or nubatama set ( 500, 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k) will seriously outperform the EP stuff. Not to say that the factory stones are poor quality...

But first and foremost you need to get your technique ironed out. A drill stop collar is a must. and an angle cube is certaintly a worthwhile investment.

Welcome to the club.
My names sadden and i have a problem ;)
 
u guys were definitely right about my technique and not raising a burr on the edge. Practiced a little more, starting slowly and taking my time, started with the 220 stone until i got a burr along the entire edge, flipped and repeated until another burr. Then did a few light passes on each side before switching to the next stone. Same process for the 400 grit, could still feel a slight burr. When using the 600 couldn't feel the burr anymore so just sharpened until the edge had a slight polished look to it, then flipped and repeated. Followed with 1000 and have a much sharper edge now, technique still needs a little work but much better than before
 
You may want to try a Nubatama 120 grit stone for the edge pro. I find the original 120 and 220 stones for the edge pro to be a bit lacking in cutting power, though 320 and up are great for polishing and refining. It may save you a lot of time if you rebevel a knife a lot, particularly new knives.
 
A Shapton 220 Glass Stone is a good investment. Eventually collect Shapton Glass Stones in 220, 500, 1000 and 2000 and you're set.:thumbup::thumbup:

Of course, you can get up to 30,000 if the polish bug bites you!:D
 
hemi1300 said:
u guys were definitely right about my technique and not raising a burr on the edge. Practiced a little more, starting slowly and taking my time, started with the 220 stone until i got a burr along the entire edge, flipped and repeated until another burr. Then did a few light passes on each side before switching to the next stone. Same process for the 400 grit, could still feel a slight burr. When using the 600 couldn't feel the burr anymore so just sharpened until the edge had a slight polished look to it, then flipped and repeated. Followed with 1000 and have a much sharper edge now, technique still needs a little work but much better than before
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Sounds like your on the right track. You should be able to feel a burr with both the 600 and 100 stones. If your having trouble then you can lightly strop on some paper towel. If the edge grabs on one side and not the other then you know you have a burr. You will also see fibers hanging off the edge this way.

You can burn up the EP stuff learning and add aftermarket stones down the road , don't feel rushed to go getting anything right now :)
 
All good responses so far. One thing to add is to really take steps to ensure the blade stays in one place on the table. Magnets are one option i've seen marketed, but i've taken to using a small rolled up piece of painters tape sticky side out placed in the middle of the blade table to both tack the blade in place a little bit and also to counteract the unsupported area on the PM2 FFG blades to prevent tip-dipping and uneven bevel contact.

basically, just make sure that blade is staying put.
 
Lots of good tips.

I consider a good magnifier a necessity. I use the "40x LED Pocket Microscope" from http://www.magnifier.com/microscope_pens.htm. By far the best $32 I've spent on sharpening.

The youtube video "The Secret To Improving Your Razor And Knife Edges" is an excellent explanation of the benefits and use of a microscope.

A scope will show you
1 - a good burr does not necessarily mean all the scratches from the previous stone have been removed
2 - if the scratches are going all the way to the edge.
3 - how consistently smooth the edge really is
 
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aread said:
I agree with you on the pocket microscope. But you can do a lot better on price with this one:

http://www.amazon.com/45x-Mini-Pock...TF8&qid=1380554453&sr=1-6&keywords=microscope

Not super quality, but definitely adequate for this use.

Allen
Click to expand...

Perhaps. I haven't actually used that particular scope. But my experience has been inexpensive scopes are basically toys. I wanted something better than "adequate".

For me, cheap tools usually have to be replaced by better tools. Cheaper to just buy the better tool in the first place.

Of course, buying over the web is always a crap shoot.
 
Considering trying one of the 220 shapton stones but a few questions on them. Are they really worth the high cost and do they cut quicker/polish better to reduce your sharpening time? I see there are more than one type of shapton stones for the edgepro, which are the best one's to get? Unreal how expensive they are if u buy them as a set, but could always buy one stone every so often to build up to a whole set of them
 
hemi1300 said:
Considering trying one of the 220 shapton stones but a few questions on them. Are they really worth the high cost and do they cut quicker/polish better to reduce your sharpening time? I see there are more than one type of shapton stones for the edgepro, which are the best one's to get? Unreal how expensive they are if u buy them as a set, but could always buy one stone every so often to build up to a whole set of them
Click to expand...

Yes the Shaptons really are worth the cost. The 220 is fast. The 320 and 500 are fast. They're also smoother than most others.

All of them are very good, but IME, the Glass Stones are the best. Right now, I am slowly replacing my Shapton Pro stones with Glass stones. One at a time :thumbup:

(Trouble is, I may not live long enough to wear out the Pro stones, so I can justify replacing them. :D)
 
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