Edge retention.......

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Mar 15, 2011
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If you had to put all the steels that CRK has used for its sebenzas in order from best to worst (just talking edge retention), what would your order be? I have only experienced s35vn and BG42. Bg42 is far superior. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Steels to compare:
ats-34
bg42
s30v
s35vn
damascus
 
S35vn has better retention than BG-42 at the same heat treat, though, so not sure if that really pertains to the question. Damascus is last, but just barely. I haven't used the ats-34 enough to know 1st hand about edge retention, but my list would be as follows:
ats-34 (from what I've seen and heard)
bg42
s30v + S35vn (heat treat and edge retention is almost exactly the same, coming from Crucible steels, the difference between the two is rolling vs chipping)
damascus
 
I have only experienced S35VN and Devin Thomas stainless damscus personally, and only on 3 Sebenzas, so take my input considering those factors; DT stainless > S35VN in my experience with edge retention. Takes a finer edge too. More likely to chip or roll though. Seems more durable than S35VN in general (but might not be, someone with more experience will chime in).

edit: few more folks from this old thread below seem to agree with the thoughts I shared in my DT stainless damascus thread

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...vin-Thomas-Damascus-Blades-Hard-ass-or-Softie
 
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I actually prefer the heat treat of Spyderco's S30v and S35vn than CRKS. I would be interested to try CRK ATS-34 though
 
Here is a thread that I started a year or so ago. I still feel the same way.

* I have been one of the lucky ones to be able to have the all mighty sebenza in all 4 steels available + the two main styles of Damascus

* Figured with all the recent posts asking is this steel better than that, is this knife better than that, that I would start a little thread with my CRK blade steel experience. With any of these threads, it mainly comes down to how they cut, not how good they look in hand.

* I am a user of my CRK. Though I do have some that I have never carried, its not their fault. Cant carry tons of them at once (the zombie apocalypse is not here yet). But I do use mine, very few are safe queens. So below is my Real World experience with them.

* I also do not own a microscope, so if there are "micro" chips in the edge, I am not seeing them. They cut and have cut fine for me for years ( both my hands and materials ), and to ME, thats what counts.

* As for the performance of the knives and steels, I do what CRK recommends.
> I use the CRK lube, its the cheapest of all and it was designed just for their knives. I don't need to reinvent the wheel here.
> Also, I only use the Spyderco Sharpmaker. At $60, I find it to be about the best sharpener out there, both for the experienced and novice. I have used the old vintage "V" sharpening systems for over 25 years and have had the upmost success with them. I don't need fancy bench clamping gizmos with stones and guides that looks like an erector set to sharpen my sebenza. I know there are masters at using a stone like HAZE. He obviously has a talent I do not have.

* When I sharpen my knives, I test them by shaving some hair on my arm, or on my thumbnail to see if it catches. This is SHARP enough for me. I have yet to see any knife that will cut free standing hair, cut material falling across the blade, etc. One slice into some cardboard and that edge is gone, plus one slip and your in for a world of hurt......Ouch...!!!

* I have Never questioned CRK's RC Heat Treat. I am a User of the knives, not a metallurgical scientist. My grandfather worked with steel all his life and even had a RC tester. He always told me anything over 40 was Hard. I find it hard to believe a knife with a 60RC is far superior to a knife with 58-59 RC. Mr. Reeve helped develop the S30V & S35VN. I am sure he knows just a little bit more than any of us or even the other makers that use the steels he helped create. To each their own.


ATS-34: I have had 4-5 P sebenzas with this steel. I have sharpened them and they held a good edge, but they were not knives I carried for edc, so their long term usage, I am not experienced in. I did have a couple with stained blades, but since I was not the original owner, I do not know what they were subjected to. I currently have 2 with ATS34, but again, they are not edc's. Though I have carried them a few times, I do not put them in the my edc class.

BG-42: The first sebenza I ever had, a large regular ended up having this as the blade steel. Once I found how sought after it was even back then, I looked for a newer S30V to replace it. I did carry it often and have experience with BG-42 in other sebenzas. I find it keeps a great edge, but is hard to sharpen. I only use the sharpmaker and have 25+ years experience with this style of sharpening system, so I know what I am doing with it. Never had an issue with stains of any kind and find it to be a huge step up from the ATS-34. If you get that right blade, I think it will hold the sharpest edge of them all.

S30V: I have the most experience with this blade steel. My mnandi's had it and most of my sebenzas do as well. Also the military line-up sported S30V in the beginning. I find it pretty easy to sharpen and it holds an edge as good as BG-42 in my opinion. Since its easier to sharpen ( to me at least ), its has always been my favorite. I have never had any of the chipping that people claim, though I think they are looking through a microscope to see it. I have used these S30V CRK for everything you can think of. Food Prep, Cleaning Game, Cutting TONS of cardboard, whittling, cutting tar paper and shingles, you name it and I have never had a problem with it. It remains my favorite until something changes my mind about it, but I dont see that happening for some time.

S35VN: I have had several sebenzas in this blade steel, but they have not been used nearly as much as the S30V. I do find it harder to sharpen like BG-42, and as for sharpness, it seems to just depend on the knife. I have S35VN that is RAZOR sharp, and I have had them that even though they are sharp, just dont go that extra little bit. ALOT of this has to do with blade angle. So I attribute it to that, and not so much the steel. Never a staining issue of any kind.

DT SS Damascus: I have had this steel in a mnandi and a couple sebenzas and find it to be similar to S30V. I find it easy to sharpen like S30V and holds an edge about the same. If I had to compare it to the other CRK steels, I would say its a cross between ATS-34 and S30V, only in a prettier package. I will say, I will not be out cutting shingles with it, not even from the backside....lol. But I have used it for food prep, whittling, cutting cardboard, whittling paint off rawhide dog bones that I cut in half with a sawzall, and the finish has never even slightly tarnished or faded. With the Stainless Steel damascus, I have never had any staining issues.

HC Damascus: I recently picked up 2 large regulars with some pretty fancy damascus blades. I know its HC damascus as they were made in the early 2000's and SS damascus was not seen then. They are sporting the factory sharp razor edge from 12-13 years ago. Since they will not be regular edc knives, I will probably not have much to say other than they sliced through that birthday or christmas wrapping paper like a laser....lol.

Looking forward to hearing your comments on usage...!!! Anything to add that will help CRK vets or newbies alike is its purpose...!!!

The entire thread can be seen in the link below. Enjoy...!!!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ade-Steels-Used-In-The-Sebenza-Over-The-Years
 
Here is a thread that I started a year or so ago. I still feel the same way.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ade-Steels-Used-In-The-Sebenza-Over-The-Years

Nyefmaker, I am jealous of your CRK collection - - both those you still have and the ones you have mentioned letting get away. I am amazed by your CRK knowledge. I am grateful that you give back to the CRK sub forum like you do. I came to CRK from William Henry when I wanted bigger/sturdier knives. Contributions from people like you on this forum are what ultimately led me to a couple of Sebenzas.
 
Nyefmaker, I am jealous of your CRK collection - - both those you still have and the ones you have mentioned letting get away. I am amazed by your CRK knowledge. I am grateful that you give back to the CRK sub forum like you do. I came to CRK from William Henry when I wanted bigger/sturdier knives. Contributions from people like you on this forum are what ultimately led me to a couple of Sebenzas.

Thank You FordFan, That Means A Lot....!!!

I learned so much from westllen & Haze way back when I started, which led me to Many of CRK to build experiences of my own. Hence my CRK Timeline, and the countless other posts I have made. As soon as time permits ( busy with work ), I am planning a thread that I am sure MANY of you will truly enjoy...!!!
 
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Thank You FordFan, That Means A Lot....!!!

As soon as time permits ( busy with work ), I am planning a thread that I am sure MANY of you will truly enjoy...!!!

Come on now, you should not be allowed to tease us with a statement like that without at least a hint about the topic.
 
Come on now, you should not be allowed to tease us with a statement like that without at least a hint about the topic.

Well, being as I have been planning this thread all summer......lol. I ended up doing the " My 100 CRK " thread before this one. Still compiling information on the other one. Will be well worth the wait :D
 
Thank You FordFan, That Means A Lot....!!!

I learned so much from westllen & Haze way back when I started, which led me to Many of CRK to build experiences of my own. Hence my CRK Timeline, and the countless other posts I have made. As soon as time permits ( busy with work ), I am planning a thread that I am sure MANY of you will truly enjoy...!!!

I'm flattered greatly, but you are indeed a great wealth of knowledge here, to be sure. :)

I was actually wondering about Westllen not so long ago, he popped up in a search. I haven't seen him about these parts for a long time now.....
 
Me too, he helped me with the OPK back in the beginning. A Wealth of knowledge with thee OPK for sure. He actually directed me to where a Jereboam I was at the time. Still have it, one of my favs.....!!!
 
Hey nyefmaker, I appreciate your info in this thread. I have been wondering about hardness and edge retention with the current S35vn and DT Stainless Damascus offerings by CRK. This thread helps a lot.

Has anything changed from then to now about this? I'm considering a Damascus Sebenza for EDC and would welcome your input and any others who have current edge retention info.
 
The only thing I would add (to this revived thread) is that the question is a bit like asking which brand of vehicle is fastest (without specifying the engine options or the terrrain on which they will be raced).

An obvioous factor is heat treat, but if you assume that CRK has standardized that, you still need to comprehend the differences imparted by edge geometry (degree of convex, and effective apex angle....note these are separate factors), and the differences imparted by finish (both grit and execution), and finally, what media are you cutting primarily to ultimately gauge edge retention?

Very often I see retention reports by people that pulled a knife out of a package and went to cutting a pile of cardboard (food grade?, industrial grade?) then proclaim x beats y (that they "tested" last week). CRK does a great job, but their edgges are NOT standardized and some are far better than others...this alone can result in significant differences among the SAME steel and hardness. (never mind any attempts to compare a factory brand Y edge to an edge ole' Bob down the road put on my old brand Z knife)
 
The only thing I would add (to this revived thread) is that the question is a bit like asking which brand of vehicle is fastest (without specifying the engine options or the terrrain on which they will be raced).

An obvioous factor is heat treat, but if you assume that CRK has standardized that, you still need to comprehend the differences imparted by edge geometry (degree of convex, and effective apex angle....note these are separate factors), and the differences imparted by finish (both grit and execution), and finally, what media are you cutting primarily to ultimately gauge edge retention?

Very often I see retention reports by people that pulled a knife out of a package and went to cutting a pile of cardboard (food grade?, industrial grade?) then proclaim x beats y (that they "tested" last week). CRK does a great job, but their edgges are NOT standardized and some are far better than others...this alone can result in significant differences among the SAME steel and hardness. (never mind any attempts to compare a factory brand Y edge to an edge ole' Bob down the road put on my old brand Z knife)

This is a great point. Unless the materials being cut are exactly the same, and the knives were sharpened exactly the same, a comparison is worthless.

I've had CRKs that came extremely sharp, and one that was dull out of the box. It all depends on who was working your knife that day, and exactly how they did that specific knife.

CRK definitely knows what they are doing, if they offered a knife in 440C I'd confidently try it out. That said, I'm glad they're using S35VN now, I've had great luck with it after significant use.
 
Hey nyefmaker, I appreciate your info in this thread. I have been wondering about hardness and edge retention with the current S35vn and DT Stainless Damascus offerings by CRK. This thread helps a lot.

Has anything changed from then to now about this? I'm considering a Damascus Sebenza for EDC and would welcome your input and any others who have current edge retention info.

Maybe I can help you with this a little bit. I don't claim to know as much or have had nearly as many CRK as nyfemaker or many other long time CRK sub users. Having said that, I and a considerable few other members have noted the Devin Thomas Stainless Damascus blades to retain their edges a little better than S35VN. Now this could be greatly in part due to some of the factors unit brought up regarding the actual shape of the edge. Maybe it is not that the DT blades inherently have slightly better edge retention due to heat treat or make up, but the edges are simply shaped differently. I have run my S35VN and DT blades as close to identical as I can get by hand and still think the DT blades retain their edges longer. I can't speak for the older Damascus offered through CRK.

I hope this helps.
 
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