EdgePro Stropping & Foam Tape Redux!

fulloflead

fulloflead

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EdgePro Stropping & Foam Tape Redux!

I fear we lost a really good EdgePro thread in the server disaster. :(
I searched for it and can't find it.

I'm starting this thread again because I've had great success with OTHER people's ideas. I WANTED to find that thread so I could credit those people who invented a few really good EdgePro techniques, but I'm afraid I can't find them and they may be lost forever.

[If you're out there, please chime in and take credit for your ideas.]

Someone came up with the idea of using this thick, foam hobby tape along with the polishing tapes to make a better edge. I tried it, and while it worked better than anything else in putting a mirror-polish finish on my edge it didn't give me my BEST edge.

My BEST edge came from somebody eles's idea of cutting a piece of leather and attaching it to a blank to use as a strop...

I DID manage to improve on the idea, slightly, but I'd still like to give credit to whoever thought of making a leather strop for the EdgePro if anyone remembers who it was.

Anyway, here's my, slightly-improved process:

1. I cut a piece of leather (From Crazy Crow) and attached it to a blank leaving the ROUGH side of the leather OUT for stropping.

2. Then, I raised the grain of the leather so the surface was fuzzy by scraping the surface with the corner of a thin piece of metal.

3. I then rubbed a bunch of White Sears Craftsman Compound into the surface.

4. I repeated step #2.

5. I stropped a knife I just finished sharpening by using a PULL-ONLY motion.

This gave me the best results I've ever had from the EdgePro. Definately, hair-poppin' sharp. Considering that it was a chisel-edge, chrome-coated Emerson, that's pretty darn good! (I did remove the burr off the other side of the blade on a Spyderco Sharpmaker stone when needed and then switched to doing it on the EdgePro strop later.)

I've had trouble getting a truly hair-poppin' edge with the EdgePro, I believe, because the knife isn't clamped in place and it's very, very difficult to hold totally still. I belive that this little bit of moving-around of the knife on the platform makes it impossible to get the same quality edge I've been able to achieve with a Gatco or Lansky. But I believe that this new "fuzzy" strop corrects those problems.

[I still prefer the EdgePro over others becuse of it's speed and leverage and quality of stones.]

I belive my "fuzzy" strop was so successful is because the long nap (texture/fuzziness) of the leather is very forgiving of slight differences in angle and makes up for it because the nap will lap over the edge of the blade.

I think the only thing that would work better is if EdgePro would, somehow, give you the option of clamping a knife in place. Then, I think the original equipment and tapes would probably work better. BUT, considering the fact that you CAN'T hold a knife totally still or in the same place all the time; I gotta go with the "fuzzy" strop for now.

If you've already tried the other methods of that other (presumably lost) thread, please try this new "fuzzy" variation of the original leather strop idea.

Again, the ideas in this thread aren't new. The only thing I can take credit for is the scraping up and creating a "fuzzy" leather strop. The original ideas of attaching leather and the foam tape belong to other people.
 
Thanks for sharing your fuzzy strop success!

MeDoctor came up with the servo tape idea and Nosmo came up with the strop idea.

I'm very surprized that you couldn't get a hair-popping edge with the regular methods.

Now I have an idea that's definitely not mine, but it should help with knife wobble (wish I used it on my poor Nemesis):

Put a pad of Fimo, Sculpey or funtack (kind of like Play-Doh, but not as salty or unstable) on the knife ramp to mold around the sides of the knife and keep the edge steady.
 
MeDoctor got the idea of using a tape with a cushion effect. I can not remember the name he used.
It was tape that you get at Radio Controlled
car shops.

I believe Thombrogan substituted double sided foam tape and found it worked just as well.

I stuck a bit of leather on an Edge Pro blank , but got it the wrong way around and it worked better with the
smooth side up and Lee Valley Chromium Oxide as the 'polish'
blanks.jpg


Since then I have done considerable experimenting and I have concluded that for my purposes, the foam tape
works best when mated to some 9.000 or 12,000 Chromium Oxide or Aluminium Oxide lapping film.

I find it easier to use as one can go back and forth . The leather of course
can only work on the back stroke. Both methods produced about the same very high degree of sharpness, and
both methods could round over the edge and reduce sharpness, with over use.
 
Nosmo said:
Both methods produced about the same very high degree of sharpness, and both methods could round over the edge and reduce sharpness, with over use.
Click to expand...

In a way, that can also be a benefit if you're a fan of the whole convex edge and secondary bevel idea. Take the relief all the way down to the edge with your 600 grit stone and switch to your foam'n'film or strop and you'll polish the relief and apply a highly polished edge at a slightly steeper angle. Okay, you'll do the same with the polishing film w/o the foam, but it won't be as obvious (OTOH, the subtler version can be sharper).
 
thombrogan said:
In a way, that can also be a benefit if you're a fan of the whole convex edge and secondary bevel idea. Take the relief all the way down to the edge with your 600 grit stone and switch to your foam'n'film or strop and you'll polish the relief and apply a highly polished edge at a slightly steeper angle. Okay, you'll do the same with the polishing film w/o the foam, but it won't be as obvious (OTOH, the subtler version can be sharper).
Click to expand...

I ran into difficulty with the foam tape method and angles.
Unless the combination of foam tape and film match the thickness of a standard Edge Pro hone there can be problems. If it is thiner, then the effective angle will be greater and this is where I got edge rounding.
My solution was to lower the pivot shaft a tiny bit to compensate.
When the tape/film combination was at exactly the same angle, parallel to the edge......that's is when I got my best results.
 
Excellent ideas about stropping with the Edge Pro. I think the smooth side of the leather works better because it has less "give" and the very edge of the knife is not blunted in the stropping process. As much as I like leather, I have been having more success with the dense, thin, cardboard on back of a tablet that is put on a solid and flat surface. I load the cardboard with Lee Valley green polishing compound and achieve a polished, nasty-sharp edge.

I have watched Ben Dale sharpen many, many knives, including my own and he gets a frightening edge with stones and tapes alone. He always uses the professional model, even though he has an Apex on display too.
 
thombrogan said:
Now I have an idea that's definitely not mine, but it should help with knife wobble (wish I used it on my poor Nemesis):

Put a pad of Fimo, Sculpey or funtack (kind of like Play-Doh, but not as salty or unstable) on the knife ramp to mold around the sides of the knife and keep the edge steady.
Click to expand...

OK! That's a good idea. Come to think of it, the double-sided tape I have is REALLY strong. I might try that too. :D
 
thombrogan said:
Put a pad of Fimo, Sculpey or funtack (kind of like Play-Doh, but not as salty or unstable) on the knife ramp to mold around the sides of the knife and keep the edge steady.
Click to expand...

Now you can't just drop this great idea out of the blue without telling us what this stuff is and what sort of stores sell it.
 
Well, it wasn't my idea and I wish I could tell you mentioned it here first, but Fimo and Sculpey are sold in craft stores and funtack (sp?) is sold in hardware sections of supermarkets and drug stores for hanging up posters without tape or stickers.
 
Nosmo said:
MeDoctor got the idea of using a tape with a cushion effect. I can not remember the name he used.
It was tape that you get at Radio Controlled
car shops.
Click to expand...

Servo tape - used to secure steering servos on R/C race cars. R/C plane modelers use it too.

I'll keep watching this thread with interest, but I've put aside the time consuming quest for the ultimate edge -- at least for now. I'm focusing on getting a very good egde in a short amount of time. I got some cheap 2" x 6" diamond hones on sale at Harbor Frieght - coarse, medium, and fine - all 3 for less than 10 bucks. These are the type that have a perforated surface mounted to a plastic matrix. I wound up having a guy at work cut them in half using a diamond cutting wheel on a surface grinder after burning up about 6 of my Dremel cut-off wheels to do a sloppy job of cutting the first one. Not sure yet if I like these better than the P-120 Gator Grit for the rough bevel cutting...

Shalom,
Mark
 
Oh boy... resurrection time! :D Let me tell you a few things I've done with my Edgepro.

I secured very stiff shoe sole leather to an EP stone blank and tried that with CrO compound and got great results. The only thing about using leather is that you'll still be convexing the edge ever so slightly. I've since switched over to using Nexcare medical tape on glass secured to an EP stone blank. This provides a hard surface and no (or very, very minute) convexing.

The other thing is to use diamond stones. I picked up DMT Diasharp 4" stones and mounted them to EP stone blanks. Wow! They cut very quickly and don't need lapping. They'll stay flat for years. I love the results I'm getting with them. They are slightly more course than DMT rates them but they do give stellar results. I will admit that you will definitely need to strop a bit more to get out the fine scratches the diamonds leave but the edge you get is spectacular. :eek::thumbup:

No matter if you're using the EP stones, your own strops, etc., the trick is marking the edge at the start of the sharpening session and between stone/strop changes. You want to ensure you're hitting the edge at the same angle every time. :thumbup::thumbup:
 
I like the idea of attaching a DMT Diasharp 4" and have been considering the idea for a while, but didn't know if it would fit. Now you confirm the idea, perfect!
 
I had a problem with knife wobble when I first got my EdgePro. I solved it with an ordinary clamp. A one-hand operated 'C' clamp sort of thing. (Really more of a 'D' clamp.) You don't have to clamp it down very tightly for it to work as you shouldn't be pressing hard with the stone guide. The one I have uses a trigger to tighten it. Adds an extra 30 seconds on to the sharpening job, but it's worth the time to have to consistency.

I've been using tooling leather mounted to a blank as a strop for my Apex. I have a couple of them for use with different grit compounds, and one that is bare for the finish-up. I use smooth side up for beveled edges that you get with the EdgePro, but also use rough side strops (not on the EdgePro) for stropping convex grinds.

Stitchawl
 
The polishing tapes are nice, but I'm going to get some 15k Shapton stones cut up to mount on my EdgePro. Fun fun.
 
I thought of going in on the Shapton thing but .... eh, don't need it. I'm 115% happy with the results I get with my current setup. MOF, today I cut up a few more 1x6 pieces of float glass to use with different stropping compounds. Gotta love the Edgepro! :thumbup::thumbup:

Cotdt, the Diasharps work fine. You just need to get used to working with the shorter 4" stone but it's definitely working for me. OR, you can get 1x6 Eze-lap diamond stones but they're more $ than the Diasharps. I think I paid around $10 for each Diasharp stone from http://www.woodcraft.com/ If you do a lot of reprofiling you could get the Diasharps and a courser grit Eze-lap stone. They should last you a looong time and not need lapping.
 
Splat said:
I thought of going in on the Shapton thing but .... eh, don't need it. I'm 115% happy with the results I get with my current setup. MOF, today I cut up a few more 1x6 pieces of float glass to use with different stropping compounds. Gotta love the Edgepro! :thumbup::thumbup:

Cotdt, the Diasharps work fine. You just need to get used to working with the shorter 4" stone but it's definitely working for me. OR, you can get 1x6 Eze-lap diamond stones but they're more $ than the Diasharps. I think I paid around $10 for each Diasharp stone from http://www.woodcraft.com/ If you do a lot of reprofiling you could get the Diasharps and a courser grit Eze-lap stone. They should last you a looong time and not need lapping.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the useful info. 4" is a bit small, I need more speed as I use my EdgePro for grinding knives into shape from bar stock. I want to try one of those 6x2" DMTs. The EdgePro has a long shim so it seems like maybe even the 8x3" stones would fit, I might try it sometime. I will consider the Eze-lap diamond stones as well.
 
You know, I can't help but think that if you could work out a way to have the knife sit ON the sliding table thing, you could install a couple of rare-earth magnets into the table that would pull the blade down and hold it level.

Wouldn't work on your Ti knives, though. :D
 
Since my post above in 2004, I have tried Nexcare medical tape with great success. Also back then it was not recommended to use diamond hones on the EP but that has now all changed and Ben approves.
 
Glad I didn't start a new thread regarding this topic (modifying the Edge Pro or creating your own strop blanks)

So, as many of you have, I too was thinking of ways to expand or customize the Edge Pro for - in particular - stropping. I'm sure I could easily whip up my own leather strop but the concept of "exact angle control stropping" is enticing.

Anyways, I would like to say thanks to Splat/Nosmo/MeDoctor and all others for their experimentation. I also saw a single post on the British knives forum with a homemade leather strop for the EP.

Some other links I found interesting (that I was going to include in a new thread):

A few of Splat's posts #1, #2 (the second regarding the use of Nexcare tape + stropping compound)

3M micro abrasive film (lapping tape) #1, #2 (Straight Razor forums), #3 (user applied 3M tape to his EP)

I'm particularly interested in using the glass blanks with the Nexcare tape + diamond spray. However, I assume you don't use any upward strokes on the blade, strictly a downward trailing "stropping stroke"? If you were to use the EP for stropping, would you stay at the same angle as your edge or go for lower angles? It makes me wonder what can be done with a light touch at exact angles stropping on an Edge Pro with very fine compounds (0.25 micro diamond, etc). Plus, I like the idea of the glass blanks and fine medical tape charged with compound.

The upside over regular stropping I can see is that, while stropping blades on a normal strop a person may be changing the pressure on the blade (slightly higher for heavier knives, lower for lighter knives). On the EP however, the strop stays the same mass and by that fact you may be able to develop a more exact and consistent pressure regardless of blade mass, resulting in repeatable and significant edge honing ability from the system.

Something very promising for extreme sharpness fanatics or people who don't want to buy expensive polishing tapes or at the very least- expanding the versatility of this sharpening system. Keep up the good work everyone!

P.S. Has anyone tried diamond spray on just the glass blanks, or does there need to be some kind of padding such as medical tape?
 
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