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Editorial: Survival Experts are people too

B

Bushman5

Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
9,833
Some observations as of late:

We, as society, expect survival experts, bushcrafters, wilderness teachers etc to be infalliable. We expect them to start a fire in pissing rain, with a rock and piece of iron, and have a fire blazing in minutes. We expect them to never get lost. We expect them to never get hungry or cold or tired or injured.

Well, in the real world these experts are people too. People make mistakes, even experts. Mother earth throws the experts curve balls too. They get injured, they get cold, they get hungry, they cant start a fire sometimes, momma nature says nope, not today.

Experts/bushcrafters/survival teachers etc are just like you or me. They may have more skills, they may have put those skills to use more than us, but the are people too, not something we put on a pedestal or view as gods who can do no wrong.

So remember, when your hunched over in the rain, and your tired and cold and fingers are numb, and your trying to start a fire and fail - rest assured the many experts out there who have done this thousands of more times than you, have also experienced this. There is no time benchmark for performing wilderness skills, there is no guarantee said experts will get it right every time .

just some musings by me
 
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SORRY FOLKS THIS IS A DOUBLE POST AND NOT COMPLETE, please see the otherthread of the same title

(( Two threads are better than one! So I merged them. :) ))
 
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You want to flesh this out?

If you are saying that people tend to put the people they look up to on a higher pedestal, then I agree. But, I hardly think that is outdoor specific.

An astute observer can point out thousands of such examples.

2 pennies.

Marion
 
Actually, this ties in with another topic that comes up, about people rescued not always being all that grateful, taking the rescue for granted, as if it's no big deal.

Also, how vindictive they can get if the rescue does not go right -- remember the guy whose wife died due to their own negligence, but he wanted to sue people for not getting to them on time.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Actually, this ties in with another topic that comes up, about people rescued not always being all that grateful, taking the rescue for granted, as if it's no big deal.

Also, how vindictive they can get if the rescue does not go right -- remember the guy whose wife died due to their own negligence, but he wanted to sue people for not getting to them on time.
Click to expand...


ug dont get me started on thatr idiot! :barf:
 
I agree with everything you said, Bushman. After all, if you never try, you never fail. Hopefully, you succeed much more than you fail.

However, there seems to be a hypersensitivity to the issue of the "pros" and "experienced" folks vs. the regulars.

If I did SAR work and didn't like it, I would quit. This seems to be a convenient venue though for some to come to vent their spleen and tell in detail the disgust and disdain they have for the people they rescue. (So you hate you job because of the people you serve... quit already!)

And then of course, there are these threads
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=692043 that usually wind up with no more than a piling on of those professing their disbelief at how stupid people are out on the trail. Often, they wind up like that thread where post #5 where they should be left alone, or left to die. Darwin is often cited. Detailed explanations ensue describing the proper gear and techniques that the "idiots" should have used, littered with sarcasm.

So those that don't hike/camp/hunt much get the idea that there are a lot of experts here that have attained such status that they are infallible. And the guys that post the most with the most clever posts have to be the experts, right?

I think when you are so openly critical and judgmental of others, you automatically set yourself up for criticism, no matter your skill level.

It is important to remember that the only way you never make mistakes on the trail is to not go out at all.

I learned a long time ago, if you don't try, you don't fail.

What a crappy way to live.

I am at the point where me and my amigos get a charge out of our "dumbass moments" as long as we return safe and sound.

Robert
 
Yeah, life is full of fine lines. We expect doctors to be "on par" and non-negligent (sorry for the double negative) and we hold them accountable for failure. There is this whole cultural "you're a professional therefore you should be held accountable" bull-$h1t. Medical professionals are frequently the subject of that standard. Everybody has bad days. When someone negligently hurts or kills another, should they be accountable? In a perfect world, where people are doing their utmost to satisfy the needs of others, NO. If everything was done in good faith, I think do think it shouldn't. However, the line isn't so black and white and good people suffer because modern man likes to litigate. I've read so many accounts of instances where people stand aside while someone suffers because they fear legal liability. Maybe it is late, but I always do my best and some days I am unable to do it perfect. We're all fallible.
 
I've seen Les Stroud get his ass kicked by the weather, or other circumstances, on Survivorman. At least he's honest enough to admit defeat and use that satellite phone, and tell his audience about it.
 
midnight flyer said:
I agree with everything you said, Bushman. After all, if you never try, you never fail. Hopefully, you succeed much more than you fail.

However, there seems to be a hypersensitivity to the issue of the "pros" and "experienced" folks vs. the regulars.

If I did SAR work and didn't like it, I would quit. This seems to be a convenient venue though for some to come to vent their spleen and tell in detail the disgust and disdain they have for the people they rescue. (So you hate you job because of the people you serve... quit already!)

And then of course, there are these threads
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=692043 that usually wind up with no more than a piling on of those professing their disbelief at how stupid people are out on the trail. Often, they wind up like that thread where post #5 where they should be left alone, or left to die. Darwin is often cited. Detailed explanations ensue describing the proper gear and techniques that the "idiots" should have used, littered with sarcasm.

So those that don't hike/camp/hunt much get the idea that there are a lot of experts here that have attained such status that they are infallible. And the guys that post the most with the most clever posts have to be the experts, right?

I think when you are so openly critical and judgmental of others, you automatically set yourself up for criticism, no matter your skill level.

It is important to remember that the only way you never make mistakes on the trail is to not go out at all.

I learned a long time ago, if you don't try, you don't fail.

What a crappy way to live.

I am at the point where me and my amigos get a charge out of our "dumbass moments" as long as we return safe and sound.

Robert
Click to expand...


yep been there. I have happily dogpiled on news reports of local hikers not following the most very basic of skills and gear. I'm not going to sugarcoat such dumbass moments. I say it like it is, people dont like that. They want sugarcoated happy explanations, well sorry they aint going to get it.

Then there are the experienced. we always hear "oh well he is experienced, nothing will happen to him". We expect the experts and the well versed and the professionals to do it right all the time with zero failure, and to do it in 4 minutes. Well it aint like that.
 
this thread was in response to a certain soldier survival trainer who took 59 minutes to get a fire going in the sopping wet jungle.

fyi
 
My worst time in a sopping wet jungle was about eighteen seconds: C4 lights pretty quick. Now that I can no longer get C4, I avoid jungles.
 
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