Electrical advise

Bill Siegle

Bill Siegle

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Messages
6,916
OK I am pretty sure I lost a breaker in the garage. Basically it's in the "on" position but no current to the stuff plugged in :( Is this something a reasonably talented guy like myself could fix with a little instruction? I was thinking it's turn off the Main and get the screw drivers but figured before I start playing with stuff that can ruin my day I'll ask 1st :)
 
Breakers are pretty easy. Once you remove the fasteners they usually pull right out. But before you go and buy a new one, check it with a ohm meter first, it may not be the breaker although that's a good guess. Just make absolutely certain that the mains to the box is OFF :) while you're working on it.

Regards,

NP
 
Breakers can break !! Especially if used as a switch and they are not the switch rated type. MAKE SURE the mainbreaker in garage or house is OFF.Check with meter to make sure. Replacement must be the proper amp rating and make sure you have one that will fit the box. Bring the old one with you when you get the new one. Other than that it's straight forward.
 
NickelPlate said:
Breakers are pretty easy. Once you remove the fasteners they usually pull right out. But before you go and buy a new one, check it with a ohm meter first, it may not be the breaker although that's a good guess. Just make absolutely certain that the mains to the box is OFF :) while you're working on it.

Regards,

NP
Click to expand...


Yes check it for conductivity in the on position. Maker sure and take the broken one with you to the hardware store. Be sure that you turn the main breaker off and still treat it like there is power.
 
I know this is a stupid thing to ask,....but -
Have you turned the breaker to off and back to on?

That being out of the way, breakers tend to burn out after being tripped repeatedly.
They are easy to remove and replace.But,If you don't know EXACTLY how,ask a friend who does to show you.Taking the panel cover off means you understand EXACTLY what is inside and how it works.Your question says you don't - so get someone who does know to help you.
Not knowing how to grind or forge properly can make you a poor knifemaker,which can be remedied.Not knowing electrical wiring and service panels can make you EXACTLY dead!
Stacy
 
Yep I have tried switching it on and off. Still no juice. Gonna make a few calls tomorrow or monday and if it isn't too much I'll let an expert hit it :)
 
It doesn't really require a licensed electrician to change a breaker.Just someone who knows how.The new breaker can be found at Home Depot,et.al.,and costs about $10-15 max.The job takes less than 5 minutes - mostly to take the panel cover off and put it back on.Many handyman type friends and neighbors can help you do this.Once you know how it is done,you can do it easily in the future.An electrician will charge you maybe $100 to change it,if he even wants such a small job.He might try to talk you into a new panel box,too - for $500-600.Get a friend or handyman.
 
Is the wiring at the appliance the breaker powers OK? Could be a line off, or loose enough to not make contact, or burn't through(perish the thought).

You can test to see if you're getting juice at that point with a meter if you have one. Turn the breaker off first and test, then test with it on. Zero power either way, if all the wires are correctly connected would indicate a blown breaker. Of course, you can test the breaker too, but if you're unfamiliar with the insides of a panel, best to leave it to a friend that is.

A breaker can go out and look like it's in the on position, like stated above, but when you move the toggle back to off and then on again, they usually exhibit sloppiness. No hard click on, or off, just kind of a mushy feeling back and forth.
That's not always so though, so do as mentioned above and get someone that knows what's happening.
 
Well, I bought and installed a new breaker......no luck. I tried testing for current at the plugs as the Home Depot guy suggested. Well one of the plugs has an internal breaker like the plugs near the sinks. It was tripped! Power is now restored :) All I really lost was $3 for the new breraker and a few minutes resetting all the clocks in the house after throwing the main. I hadn't realised the one plug had a breaker in it before. Apparantly. doing a quick cut on the bandsaw when the drill press is on kicked it last time. Or at least that's the last time I was in the shop......Anyhoo all's well again :) Thanks for all the help guys!!!!!
 
Soon you'll be an electrician !!! With power tools, computer, amateur radio stuff I get used to always checking the entire system but you have to know you system.
 
Knowing the system.....yeah that could have save me some time :) I am used to seeing the little breakers near water but didn't think I had one in that location. Oh well live and learn :D
 
Yes, a GFI circuit from a bath ,kitchen, or garage will trip and shut down several outlets,often in several different rooms.The upstairs bath in my daughters house is on the same circuit as the GFI in the downstairs bath.The back deck outlet is on the same GFI.It has caused this exact situation.
 
I think they call that a Ground fault breaker also..FWIW
knowing what to do about stuff that will kill you. I use a meter or a house current 220 volt test light to test the breakers in the box. between internal box ground and the positive side of the Breaker. it's the fastest way to test the breaker.
a continuity test could show a connection but may not carry a load, this could be a danger in the way of thinking that there's no problem with it and then looking else, where remember grounds can loosen and loose contact also, causing an incomplete circuit.

I will argue the point that a breaker can't be used as a switch though..
yes they were not designed to do this...BUT
the 220 V double breaker
( which is by the way just 2 stacked 110 breakers on two legs of power) for our Hot water heater was used to turn it on and off for many years every day and is still working today ( maybe they just don't make them the way they use too:)
and still, in turn I've had others fail without ever touching them and tripping only once.... there is always an exception I guess..
but remember
getting killed by voltage only hurts you for a sec. but will hurt loved ones for a much longer time.. $100.00 is not much if you don't know what you are doing..have no doubt about it..

edited to change no fault to Ground fault..thanks Stacy
 
Some breakers ARE switch rated and for some brands all their breakers are switch rated . Check it out with your electrical supply .
 
I haven't heard of (and could find no reference to) a "no fault" breaker.The name for those circuits is GFI - Ground Fault Interrupter.They detect any difference in current between the separate wires connected and shut the circuit down in 1/10,000 of a second.They come in two main types - Ground Fault Breakers ,which go in the panel box,and Ground Fault Receptacles, which go in the wall outlets.The receptacle type can be wired to shut off that outlet only,or to shut down a string of outlets.Wiring codes require a GFI on any circuit that has outside exposure(exterior outlets,decks,hot tubs,etc.);any that have possible wet contact (kitchen/bath);or those that would reasonably be used to provide outside power (garage, sun room, enclosed porch) .
Many things can make a GFI trip.A short circuit is obvious.A bad ground wire;any fluctuation of the current on one wire only - such as a plug in intercom; and the use of an ungrounded tool on that circuit.
 
Opps my bad Stacy you got me.:o , Ground Fault not no Fault,, had no Fault insurance on the brain I guess at the time..
we in Maine are known to make up names for things, you know, we keep Webster in business,,:)

Robert, I must have the RIGHT ones:) , I've never used any of the others so I can't comment on them, I've had such good luck with this type for so many years I've made sure this is the only type box and Breakers I use for any wiring I do..
the name of these have slipped my mind, Siemens? it's been so long since I've bought any..
these are the ~ 1" <single wide ones that hook in on one end and the other end pushes down over a blade/spade contact with the one screw on them for the wire..

I'm not sure but these look like them from the pictures.
http://www.allbreakers.com/Circuit-Breakers/Siemens-ITE/B/B115-spc-joimfse8.html
 
Just a quick note-

1. Be sure to cover the end of the wire with a wire nut in case somebody flips the main back on before you have it attached to the new breaker.

2. Be sure the wire is firmly inserted and attached into the new breaker.


Working around the breaker box can definately bite you if you are careless. There are some good tutorial books about electrical work at the various hardware places. It is still best to mootch some time from a neighbor or friend that has done this before. A couple of cold ones or taking them to dinner is still less expensive than calling in the pros.

Now if I can ever figure out how to wire a three-way switch I can die and go to heaven a happy man!
 
My house was built pre-electricity [150 years old] The only GFI I have is a plug in one that I use when working with power tools around water. Before the days of GFIs we had a plumber get killed from a defective drill ...One word of warning !!! Since there are many houses like mine that don't have GFIs you still must teach your children to be very carefull around electricity !!
 
amen Robert
mine had Fuses when I bought it and since I have rewired everything
does you house have the single wires hood up on porcelain insulators?
that's getting back there..:D


DGG
if I have time, I'll draw up the circuit and post it for you for the 3 way..
they are great for up and down stairs, and the bed rooms :D :thumbup:
 
Dan -

Thanks for the offer. I have the diagram also in one of my books. It's just that I have to look at it for a long time and be sure I get the right switches before I do it. I rewired my house. All the three way outlets were broken (and upside down with the ground at the top). I also put in lighted wall switches which really cut down from kid's fingerprints on the walls as they they run their little grimy finger about trying to locate the switch. I stuck GFI outlets in all the bathrooms and in the laundry room.

I'll tell you a story.

I once helped my brother-in-law wire a hanging lamp over his pool table. He lives in Maryland near Silver Springs. He was going to call in a pro and I told him this was a piece of cake job and any dummy could do it (brother-in-law bravado talk you know).

We got the pool table lights attached to the ceiling and ran the wires down the wall to an outlet. I was fine until I got behind the wall socket to attach the lamp wires and found that all the connections on the socket were already taken by other wires. I never so many wires in my life. When I disconnected them I found that half were dead but still wired up to the socket. I was totally confused.

Well we buzzed over to the local hardware store where I showed my wiring diagram to the local hardware store guru and asked him what he made of this. He laughed. He said that when the houses were first built in this particular subdivision the contractor had used aluminum wiring but goofed. It seems all the switches and sockets in the houses were for copper wiring. So the building inspector made the contractor rewire the whole house again with copper wiring (that had to be fun). The contractor disconnected the aluminum wires from the breaker box and capped them (I checked that very carefully). Then somehow snaked the copper wire. This simple little electrical job took a half day but brother-in-law and I learned alot about his house wiring.
 
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