How To Electrical - star vs delta with 3ph 380V and vfd

H

HSC ///

Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
4,682
I'm here in France with a motor that I want to power
I have standard 230V single phase line power

I bought a VFD to power the motor -
1 hp VFD, 1-Phase 220V to 3-Phase 380V VFD
Input Voltage (Single phase): 220~230V
Output Voltage (Three phase): 380V

Here's the motor windings/wiring

Do I leave the motor as Star or switch to Delta?
It's currently setup as Star.

I've been told Star by someone and Delta by someone else
so which one and why?

c2hulQd.jpg

dAuOYQL.jpg


C6NiBxd.jpg
 
The hell is "star"?

Why does that motor say 380 220? I've heard of motors that can be wired to take 440 or 220. Or 240 and 120. But this is the first time I've seen one that was 380 220. Neat.

I'm not an electrician or an electrical engineer, but I think the difference between wye and Delta is the use of a center tap neutral. For example, Delta might have 240 volts between any two legs but it might also be 120 between two of the legs and a ground and 208 between the third leg and that same ground because of the difference in phasing. Whereas wye might be 208 between any two legs and 120 between any leg and ground and it has a neutral that is also at the same potential as ground. Delta does not use a neutral whereas wye has a neutral which that motor may or may not utilize. Since most motors of this design do not use a neutral, I would think it would not matter if you fed it Delta or wye, it would take either because it would only be taking the powered legs.

Is there a wiring chart? If it shows a neutral being used, then you probably can't use Delta. But that would be a very unusual motor design, designed more like a generator head than a normal electric motor.

Just my two cents. But I haven't had my coffee yet..
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
The hell is "star"?

Why does that motor say 380 220? I've heard of motors that can be wired to take 440 or 220. Or 240 and 120. But this is the first time I've seen one that was 380 220. Neat.

I'm not an electrician or an electrical engineer, but I think the difference between wye and Delta is the use of a center tap neutral. For example, Delta might have 240 volts between any two legs but it might also be 120 between two of the legs and a ground and 208 between the third leg and that same ground because of the difference in phasing. Whereas wye might be 208 between any two legs and 120 between any leg and ground and it has a neutral that is also at the same potential as ground. Delta does not use a neutral whereas wye has a neutral which that motor may or may not utilize. Since most motors of this design do not use a neutral, I would think it would not matter if you fed it Delta or wye, it would take either because it would only be taking the powered legs.

Is there a wiring chart? If it shows a neutral being used, then you probably can't use Delta.

Just my two cents. But I haven't had my coffee yet..
Click to expand...
Nathan you would be impressed to know this powers a Sixis 102, a most rare mill

380v Is quite common here for industrial equipment and quite a few homes actually have 3 phase x 380 power. Not mine

Anyway heres the star example from another motor. This is not the motor In question


GQVqV44.jpg


xrSjSCN.jpg

wa2lllQ.jpg
 
Last edited:
An electric motor that uses a neutral would have poles that have a hot leg on one side and the neutral on the other rather than poles that have a hot leg on both sides. It would draw (I think) twice as much amperage and require much heavier wire to do the same work which is why you don't normally see high voltage motors designed that way.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
An electric motor that uses a neutral would have poles that have a hot leg on one side and the neutral on the other rather than poles that have a hot leg on both sides. It would draw (I think) twice as much amperage and require much heavier wire to do the same work which is why you don't normally see high voltage motors designed that way.
Click to expand...
The motor in question is for the spindle
co8tmRk.jpg
 
HSC /// said:
xrSjSCN.jpg


wa2lllQ.jpg
Click to expand...


For some reason the picture is not showing up until I reply and then it shows in the quote. Which is weird. Maybe the internet is being weird this morning. Or maybe I haven't had my coffee.


The phrasing is strange to me but my thinking is they're talking about the way to wire it if you're sending it to 220 or if you're sending it 380.

What are you going to be feeding it?


Edit to add, I saw above that you said you're feeding at 380 but I wanted to be sure that you're actually feeding at 380 because I have not seen a variable frequency drive that takes 220 single phase and turns it into 380 three phase
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
For some reason the picture is not showing up until I reply and then it shows in the quote. Which is weird. Maybe the internet is being weird this morning. Or maybe I haven't had my coffee.


The phrasing is strange to me but my thinking is they're talking about the way to wire it if you're sending it to 220 or if you're sending it 380.

What are you going to be feeding it?
Click to expand...
Power By a VFD…1-Phase 220V to 3-Phase 380V

Input Voltage (Single phase): 220~230V
Output Voltage (Three phase): 380V

Get some coffee. It’s outrageous to be thinking at this level without coffee 🤣
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
For some reason the picture is not showing up until I reply and then it shows in the quote. Which is weird. Maybe the internet is being weird this morning. Or maybe I haven't had my coffee.


The phrasing is strange to me but my thinking is they're talking about the way to wire it if you're sending it to 220 or if you're sending it 380.

What are you going to be feeding it?


Edit to add, I saw above that you said you're feeding at 380 but I wanted to be sure that you're actually feeding at 380 because I have not seen a variable frequency drive that takes 220 single phase and turns it into 380 three phase
Click to expand...
Remember I moved to France. 380v is common here
mWKsPcw.jpg
 
GQVqV44.jpg

This motor is currently wired for 220. To wire it for 380 you would take those brass jumpers and connect U2, V2, W2 to each other and feed the three legs of 380 to U1, V1, W1
 
Earlier above, you said it is currently set up as star. I think that is incorrect. I think it is currently set up as Delta.


Edit:
Whoops, we posted at the same time



That motor is set up as star. It is ready to run at 380



Although I don't understand the wiring that I see in that picture. It looks like there's a leg coming into the bridged side. I don't understand that.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Earlier above, you said it is currently set up as star. I think that is incorrect. I think it is currently set up as Delta.


Edit:
Whoops, we posted at the same time



That motor is set up as star. It is ready to run at 380



Although I don't understand the wiring that I see in that picture. It looks like there's a leg coming into the bridged side. I don't understand that.
Click to expand...
Ok so the way I understand it- the motor is setup as star for 380

Because I’m feeding it 380 via the VFD I do not need to change it.
 
220V pulls more A so there is a difference in connection not to burn the motor. That's why Delta is recommended for 220V input. 380V input pulls less A. You have a very good inverter if it steps up the V. As it's written in your picture down, connect it in Star. The inverter is reconnecting internally to accommodate startup and work. I have 220V input and output form a VFD so I use Delta.
 
You should have another plate on the motor that gives you high and low voltage wiring diagrams. Can you post a picture of that?
 
dAuOYQL.jpg


According to teh googles. In France, that blue wire would be neutral. So someone is feeding the bridge neutral. Which is weird but I guess could be correct? I have not seen an electric motor done this way before but there's a bunch of things I've not seen.
 
If that motor does use neutral, I would check to see what the voltage is between neutral and the three different hot legs that your variable frequency drive is sending it. I think there is a good chance that you will have two legs that are low voltage and a third leg that is high voltage because Delta 3 phase can be like that. If that is the case, and that motor is using that neutral, one of those legs is going to be really high relative to that neutral compared to the others. That is how a variable frequency drive around these parts would behave. If that is the case, that might be trouble.
 
Is your native 220 a 220 hot and a zero voltage neutral? Like our 120 is here in the States. Here in the United States we build 240 across two hot legs, but over in Europe, you might have 220 on a single leg?

Just curious
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top