Elmax takes a beating...interesting

Joined
Mar 16, 2012
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939
Hi all,
My wife and I spent Sunday afternoon laying down heavy duty weed block to a large shrub garden in our back yard. We are covering this fabric with crushed red brick, pond pebbles and black mulch...it looks very nice...maybe some pics when finished.
Anyway I had to cut through a lot of this fabric...seems to be fiberglass fabric...and perhaps twenty plastic bags of stone and mulch. I used my trusty ZT566 for this chore...it is a "user" knife and I do use it but not in this manner before. I noticed as I was cutting through perhaps 75 percent of the fabric and most of the bags that the edge was starting to lose its sharpness especially in the center area of the knife edge. I figured it was just the toughness of the fabric and the sand coating parts of the plastic bags.

I tried to strop it back to its' normal shaving edge but no way. The black compound just wouldn't bring it back. I pulled out the Lansky system and went to work starting with the medium, fine diamond hones, black arkansas oil hone and the yellow and sapphire ceramic hones...while doing this I check the progress with the finger nail check and could feel the "bite" from tip to back except in the center section...barely biting the nail. I spent more time starting with the medium, etc. hones again and got a bit of a bite but nowhere near the sharpness of the rest of the blade. It was getting late...spent an hour on this...so I put it away and spent maybe ten minutes with the strop. It is hair shaving sharp except in the center...sharp but not as sharp.

I was really surprised at how much wear these materials caused to the edge. I'm not complaining at all. My wife said "why not use a cheaper knife?" I told her the knife is a user not a pocket queen only used to open mail and I'm glad to have pushed the blade as hard as I did...taught me the limits of the steel and edge on these types of materials.

I repeat, I'm not complaining. I really like this knife and it has been my EDC since I got it six months ago. I use it every day but nowhere near as hard as I used it Sunday.
When I get some more free time I'm going to tackle the edge again until it is shaving sharp along the entire edge as it usually is. I don't mind at all...I find it relaxing and watch TV while doing it.

No pics as there is nothing to see even with the ten power loupe.
That's it...just a long winded story of some hard use and wear.
 
Fiberglass will wreck an edge for just about any steel. The bags of stone were not helping anything either.

Know that while the edge on your 566 was wrecked, a lesser steel like 440C would have been obliterated
 
Please let's not stir this pot...
Not stirring a pot.
Sheesh...just a story about hard use and pushing steel to its' edge limits...

I have knives with 154CM, 1095, A2 and a couple with 440C...all good steels and knives...I'm now curious to know how these steels would have fared but not curious enough to repeat cutting the fabric with the different steels...they will all take a beating with this stuff.

As I said initially, I'm not complaining, whining, denigrating, etc. Elmax steel...I really like the stuff...the fabric wore down the sharpness of the edge and I commented on it.
 
Last edited:
Chris "Anagarika";13601173 said:
It might be plain losing the apex, therefore you don't see it under magnification.

Meant to put it under the microscope at work last night but forgot then got too busy. Will try tonight.
 
Fiberglass will wreck an edge for just about any steel. The bags of stone were not helping anything either.

Know that while the edge on your 566 was wrecked, a lesser steel like 440C would have been obliterated
My feelings exactly. There were some small areas on the edge that were still very sharp. I was using the center of the blade until it started tearing rather than slicing through the fabric then I'd use a different area that was slicing until it didn't lol...
 
For work like this, I use a pocket sharpening steel about three inches long that retracts into its own handle. Every now and then, when the edge seems to be dying, a few strokes over the sharpening steel will usually get it back into a working mood. Some knives respond better to a pocket ceramic sharpener. These are items you can find at a store for fishing and hunting gear, cost just a few bucks.
 
Not stirring a pot.
Sheesh...just a story about hard use and pushing steel to its' edge limits...

I'm not offended by your post, and I make/sell knives made of Elmax. It's one of my very favorite steels. Frankly my only problem with it is that it's not as widely-available in various sizes as I would like...

Nor am I surprised by your findings, either in how it dulled or that it didn't respond well to stropping. I only strop high-carbide steels like Elmax as a finishing/polishing after a proper sharpening... they're just too wear-resistant to respond as quickly to stropping as simpler alloys do. In future, you'd be better served by a small diamond "stone" and of course, not waiting until it gets that dull :)
 
I've used ELMAX for a few years, I am very pleased with its performance. Though capable of a awesome polish and extreme sharpness it does MUCH better at a coarser finish.

Some of the best performing edges I've experienced came from 800-1500 grit waterstones.

Currently I a using a 1500 grit Shapton pro
image.jpg
 
While I can't speak for Fire Wicket, I would guess he meant stirring the pot about ZT and Elmax. I can't put words in his mouth, but that's how I took it. I seem to remember a huge hullabaloo about ZT and their Elmax. I thought it had been put to bed.
 
I own multiple elmax knives from Busse, Survive and ZT. It is harder to sharpen than 1095 but it a great steel. Survive Elmax is not treated as hard as the Busse and ZT and it is very easy to work with. The ZT Elmax is harder and needs more patience to re-profile.

I prefer most Elmax to 390/204p/20cv because it easier for me to maintain a blade. I think at 58-60 Rockwell Elmax is about the perfect steel for me. Harder than 60ish Elmax becomes very similiar to m390 from a sharpening standpoint and loses its edge because 390 has a retention edge at equal hardness.
 
It is a PITA to sharpen, that tells me pretty much all I need to know about its wear resistance. Cutting any glass fiber material destroys sharp edges, G10 for example is super hard on saw blades, much more so than cutting metal.
 
I'm not offended by your post, and I make/sell knives made of Elmax. It's one of my very favorite steels. Frankly my only problem with it is that it's not as widely-available in various sizes as I would like...

Nor am I surprised by your findings, either in how it dulled or that it didn't respond well to stropping. I only strop high-carbide steels like Elmax as a finishing/polishing after a proper sharpening... they're just too wear-resistant to respond as quickly to stropping as simpler alloys do. In future, you'd be better served by a small diamond "stone" and of course, not waiting until it gets that dull :)

I love a shaving sharp, polished edge...just my preference...I use a Lansky system with med/fine diamond hones, black arkansas hone and yellow/sapphire hone followed by black/green compound stropping until the edge shines and push cuts through phone book paper. I enjoy the process of sharpening and edge to this level...the time doesn't bother me as I do it on the coffee table while watching TV...awesome wife.

I do this for all my knives. My only knife with Elmax is the 566. I don't have any problems sharpening it and boy oh boy does it take an awesome edge. This has become my favorite EDC knife.

This is the first time I've used "contractor" level landscape fabric. I usually use the inexpensive stuff but find it doesn't last. I decided to try this stuff for a long lasting fabric. I just didn't pay attention to what it was made from nor how abrasive it was. While it did beat up the edge I had/have no complaints about the beating the steel took. I'm pleased to learn its' limitations...valuable info when using it hard while in the bush though honestly I'll beat it up more in my yard on similar chores...trimming/pruning limbs, etc when I don't have my fixed blade handy.
All steels have their limitations and I believe it is valuable to learn them.
Thanks for all the input. I didn't expect this thread to have the input it has received but am glad for it. I love discussions and conversation especially when opinions vary...as long as it remains respectful.
 
I love a shaving sharp, polished edge...just my preference...I use a Lansky system with med/fine diamond hones, black arkansas hone and yellow/sapphire hone followed by black/green compound stropping until the edge shines and push cuts through phone book paper. I enjoy the process of sharpening and edge to this level...the time doesn't bother me as I do it on the coffee table while watching TV...awesome wife.

I do this for all my knives. My only knife with Elmax is the 566. I don't have any problems sharpening it and boy oh boy does it take an awesome edge. This has become my favorite EDC knife.

This is the first time I've used "contractor" level landscape fabric. I usually use the inexpensive stuff but find it doesn't last. I decided to try this stuff for a long lasting fabric. I just didn't pay attention to what it was made from nor how abrasive it was. While it did beat up the edge I had/have no complaints about the beating the steel took. I'm pleased to learn its' limitations...valuable info when using it hard while in the bush though honestly I'll beat it up more in my yard on similar chores...trimming/pruning limbs, etc when I don't have my fixed blade handy.
All steels have their limitations and I believe it is valuable to learn them.
Thanks for all the input. I didn't expect this thread to have the input it has received but am glad for it. I love discussions and conversation especially when opinions vary...as long as it remains respectful.

Lower grit doesn't mean the edge isn't push cutting phone book paper sharp ;). But I feel you, I used to like my edge to be as polished as possible too. Now after a lot of experimenting I've learned to love a lower grit edge especially with steels that take to a coarser edge such as Elmax. In realistic cutting I find a lower grit edge (I run 600 on my 801) to just plain cut better, more bite less hair-whittling-ness but I don't whittle hairs on a daily basis.
 
I cut fiberglass tape at work and have used many different knives/ steels to do it. It dulls them ALL rather quickly, even m390 and s110v. Serrated knives seem to tackle it the best.
 
I've used ELMAX for a few years, I am very pleased with its performance. Though capable of a awesome polish and extreme sharpness it does MUCH better at a coarser finish.

Some of the best performing edges I've experienced came from 800-1500 grit waterstones.

Currently I a using a 1500 grit Shapton pro
View attachment 445429


How acute is that edge? Do you find that Elmax creates a larger, tougher-to-remove burr at that angle and at that wide an edge?
 
That seems reasonable to me :)

...and makes perfect sense. Landscaping, at least the way I do it:D, is rough! The fabric is tough and there's no telling how much grit you ran into just cutting bags. That's what disposable blade box cutters are perfect for:). It's certainly not a situation of what your EDC is capable of, but more what it's ideal for (or what your ideal use for it is). Thanks for the report:thumbup:
 
Fiberglass can be devastating to an edge. Had to do a bit of fabricating with some DOW supertuff fiberglass board a few years ago, two passes in rapid succession of 6' or so left the blade hot to the touch - I was resharpening every five minutes or so on 30u lapping film.
 
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