Emergency Generator

Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
279
I splurged on a Generator recently and was trying to find a way to power the furnace.

Option one. Cut the line between the furnace and the panel, add an outlet on the panel side and a 3 prong cord end on the furnace side. Power goes out, unplug the furnace and plug directly into the Generator.

Option two. Make a cord that goes from the 220 twist lock on my generator and has a 3 prong 220 on the other end. Unplug the dryer, cut the power to the panel and plug the Generator into the Dryer outlet, backfilling the panel and power to the house. This would take a 25 foot line and have the Generator out front of my house.

Option three. Add a 220 circuit breaker in the panel, pull an outlet to the exterior wall above the panel on the back porch. Put an outdoor 220 outlet there. Make same cord as Dryer setup but now it's shorter,less than 10 feet, and located at the back door closer to the panel. This setup seems to be the best with the shortest cord and least amp loss.

I think I'm going with option 3. Does anyone do it differently?

Badge54
 
I splurged on a Generator recently and was trying to find a way to power the furnace.

Option one. Cut the line between the furnace and the panel, add an outlet on the panel side and a 3 prong cord end on the furnace side. Power goes out, unplug the furnace and plug directly into the Generator.


This is a fine idea and fully-allowable within the electrical code as long as the plug and socket selected are suitable. You may wish to use a twist-lock plug and socket so that A) the funance won't come accidentally unplugged, and B) so that it won't be possible for the plug to come partially out possibly allowing a conductive object to fall between the plug and the socket.

When you plug your generator into the furnace, use a heavy-duty (like #14 or, better yet, #12) extension cord and keep it as short as possible. You'll probably have to cut the cord to replace the standard end with a twist-lock, so cut it to the desired length plus maybe ten feet for slack. The wiring used in your house is probably #14, maybe #12. So, such an extension cord is as good as your house's own installed wiring.


Option two. Make a cord that goes from the 220 twist lock on my generator and has a 3 prong 220 on the other end. Unplug the dryer, cut the power to the panel and plug the Generator into the Dryer outlet, backfilling the panel and power to the house. This would take a 25 foot line and have the Generator out front of my house.

NO! NEVER DO THIS OR ANYTHING LIKE IT. Never, never plug your generator into an outlet hoping to "back feed" your house's electrical system. Your house's electrical system is not designed to work this way. Many a house fire have resulted from this old "trick."



Option three. Add a 220 circuit breaker in the panel, pull an outlet to the exterior wall above the panel on the back porch. Put an outdoor 220 outlet there. Make same cord as Dryer setup but now it's shorter,less than 10 feet, and located at the back door closer to the panel. This setup seems to be the best with the shortest cord and least amp loss.

This is only slightly less offensive than option #2 above. Slightly less offensive in that you'd install this new outlet with #4 wire. It'll still violate the electrical code to use an outlet and breaker this way.

Keep in mind that anything "jerry-rigged" will be a problem when you go to sell your house. You'll probably end up having to pay an electrician to undo it. So, the few bucks you save today will be eaten up entirely when you go to sell. The same thing is true on option #2 above. If it leaves a scorch mark inside your breaker panel and a home inspector working for a potential buyer see it, you'll end up having to pay a pro to replace the entire panel and that will cost a lot of money.

The best option is a purpose-built load switch properly installed. But, that can be expensive.

As I noted above, the wiring inside of your house is typically #14. If you use #14 or -- better yet -- #12, three-wire extension cords in good condition, this is as good as or better than the wiring in your house.

So, when the power fails, unplug the furnace from the wall outlet and run a #12 extension cord from where you set the generator up to where the furnace is. Route the cord so that it doesn't get stepped or or run over by cars or slammed in doors etc. Then, run several more #12 cords from the generator to your other loads, perhaps the refrigerator, the living room, etc. Each cord is good for about 15A, about 1800W on a 120V circuit. The generators I've seen that have 120V outlets have an individual 15A breaker on each outlet, so there's no danger of overloading here at all as long as you use #14 or #12 cords.

Insist on using a long, continuous cord from the generator to the immediate area of each load. Don't plug cords into cords into cords.

Keep your cords neatly on reels between use. This will protect them from damage and will also make it infinitely easier to set your system up in an emergency.

Replace any cord with any damage at all, any at all. Resist the temptation to just "put some tape on it." Home Depot gets $56 for a 100-foot, 12/3, indoor/outdoor-rated, heavy-duty extension cord; you can shop around and find it for less, I'm sure. Fifty bucks isn't worth burning your house down over.

You may also find that your furnace draws a considerable inrush and may not be able to start while the refrigerator or other major load is running. So, in an emergency, you may have to turn off other major loads like the frige, start the furnace and run the house of to maybe 75, then turn the furnace off and turn your other major loads back on and run that way until the temperature in the house falls to maybe 65 and then repeat. This is one of the misconceptions of a load switch, that you can just throw this one switch, start the generator, and everything works normally. No. The generator doesn't have the surge capacity that your utility company does. So, even with a load switch, you sometimes have to do this sort of load alternation.

Oh, and one more thing: Generators are noisey and they're also common theft targets. It's not hard for the thief to hear where a generator is. The common solution to this is to run the generator indoors, often in a garage. If the garage is detached, just know that you'll need to open the big door all the way and let the garage air out for a fraction of an hour or so before you go in. If the garage is attached to the house, well... this kills people every year; just don't do it. The better solution is to make sure you have a suitable length of logging chain (big, heavy chain) and a suitable lock and something sturdy to chain the generator to. If your back yard is fenced and you're planning to put the generator back there, having a provision to lock the gate -- something you may not normally do -- would be a good idea.
 
I was considering doing exactly the same, I was very heavily in favor of just doing what you suggest in #1 as I only need 120 and not 220.

After a lengthy discussion with an electrician I determined the best thing for me to do was: isolate the critical circuits, the furnace being one, and maybe one other circuit, connect them through an interlock switch, run a generator hookup to a good outdoor location. And of course purchase an properly sized generator. Official code approved etc. The cost was going to be around 1K for the work and 2K for the generator. I haven't done it.

Also, having grown up experiencing the incredible suckyness of Briggs&Stratton, Kohler, Tecumsa and similar brands the only generator I'd consider would be Honda or possibly Yamaha.
 
Gollincik, Wow, did you type all that or copy paste it?

No Really, Thanks a lot for the advise I will follow it you sure took a lot of time explaining it for me. I was trying to avoid the extension cords all over the house but that is probably safer than back filling the box. I am also not really worried about the fridge, If I need heat I can probalby assume that it is cold out and put the food in the garage. I also have plenty of flourecent bulbs and lanterns that would draw little power or none at all. During the ice storm, my neighbors thought I had power and everyone else didn't. With my Kerosene heater we were warm but only for the short time. some of my friends were without for a week or more.

? Is there a switch that fits between the power coming into the house and the panel so that I could feed it from the top?

Funny you mention thieves, The ice storm in central Ohio a few years ago put most of central Ohio out of Power. The City I work for put Generators at several of the Intersections to power the lights. During the day someone actually stole the one at the freeway off ramp causing the traffci light to go out. Luckily there were no accidents attributed to the theft.

Badge54
 
Gollnicks speaks the truth,in Western NY you don't live without back up power.The electric cord is the easiest and least expensive.I have a 3500w Kubota,I usually only run the refrigerator and freezer off of the generator,I heat with wood,so I don't worry to much about the heat and I usually use Coleman propane lanterns for light.Just be careful of the cords to make sure they are not running through any standing water and be sure to run the generator in a well ventilated area.
 
Another thing that I just thought of,if your buying a generator,watch the cheap ones that they are selling,most of those don't have as high of a load rating compared to a better quality generator.Check what your getting to be sure you have what you need.
 
The biggest danger from backfeeding is not necessarily starting a fire in your house but killing the poor s.o.b. from the electric company that comes out to fix the problem. If you backfeed and don't shut off the main breaker first and every time, you will also energize the line out to the street. Then, your biggest problem (besides guilt for life) will likely be manslaughter charges.
 
We had a lineman killed here exactly that way !!! If you're going to installal a generator please have an electrician do it !!!
 
The biggest danger from backfeeding is not necessarily starting a fire in your house but killing the poor s.o.b. from the electric company that comes out to fix the problem. If you backfeed and don't shut off the main breaker first and every time, you will also energize the line out to the street. Then, your biggest problem (besides guilt for life) will likely be manslaughter charges.

I used to be an overhead lineman. Working at the same company but different job now but still have to go out during storm trouble. That is the biggest scare for us when the power goes out from snow. Even if you get an electrician to do it do not put the linemans life in the electricians hands or your main power breaker. Not all of them are smart and even though it's a very slight chance sometimes mains don't work right or accidently not swiched correctly. The best way to protect the lineman is to remove your power meter form the base. I'm 100% sure the power company will not mind. If hooked up wrong the house side lugs in the base will be hot so cover the hole with something to protect you and neighborhood kids. Great point Blue Sky!!
 
I was going to say, I always Pull my meter. and have them reinstall it. Never been a problem. And no one dies
 
I guess I'm back to the outlet installed between the Furnace and panel. This takes the whole process off line and safest for all. I was aware of the dangers of backfeeding the power line outside, but several people have advised that it was safe to backfeed the panel.

Thanks for all the help.
Badge54
 
If you have not bought a generator, consider finding a smaller diesel generator instead of gas. We use generators a lot for building off the grid or ahead of the powercompany. I have found that for anything beyond just a few days use, Diesel's pay for them selves with fuel savings.


Also, if you live in a place where power disruptions occur often and you have Propane on site, or NG from the city, consider getting dual fuel in situ generator hooked up to the house, For the cost of what a good genset would cost, I have a 12KW NG/gasoline powered set up permanently hooked up to the house, power goes out, it starts and runs without anyone touching it, it has a built in relay and switching box, so that the city power has to be on for 2 minutes before it shuts off, and it is completely safe to city workers because of the relay. (don't ask how it works, but if the power from the city fails, the relay is un-energized, and it defaults to the home generator, When city power comes on, there is a two minute timer, and then the relay kicks and switches back to the city power, it's passed city inspection and comforms to the state rules.)

We are on the end of the power loop, so we tend to loose power more than most, and this has paid for itself, as well as adding 5 to 10 grand resale to the house.
 
I guess I'm back the outlet installed between the Furnace and panel. This takes the whole process off line and safest for all. I was aware of the dangers of backfeeding the power line outside but several people have advised that it was safe to backfeed the panel.

Thanks for all the help.
Badgr54


The dangers are not just to utility company employees, though that is a very serious danger.

A typical household circuit is wired with AWG #14 wire. That will safely carry 15 Amps. At 120V, that's 1800W. At 220V, that's 3300W. A lot of home generators are rated for well over that; 5000W is not uncommon. And it's not just the wire. Everything along the way is designed accordingly. The contacts where the breaker connects to the bar in the panel are designed accordingly. Overload it and you can scorch or pit the bars if you don't cause a fire.

It's just not a good idea for a lot of reasons. Either outfit your house's electrical system to accept a generator using a load switch or don't use your house's electrical system to distribute power from a generator.

I have also seen devices that plug in in place of the meter and connect a generator. This is a viable alternative too and perfectly safe. Your utility may charge you a fee to replace and seal the meter.

Do not operate with an unsealed meter. If the utility discovers this, the legal consequences can be messy.
 
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