Emergency Shelter test - Winter time

TheMadIndian

TheMadIndian

Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
888
I have carried a small system in my hiking bag to turn an unplanned night in the woods into an uncomfortable night out from life threatening but below 40F it just wasnt viable. I then stumbled across the sprawler UL bivy at 6oz and thought I could combine it with my hammock quilts and make an emergency ground system. I tried first with my JRB Shenandoah quilt which is 15oz or a woobie which is around 23oz. add in a torso length pad for 12oz and large mest poncho or 10x10 tarp. So for about 4 lbs I've got a complete shelter that packs small and just makes it an inconvenient night

I tested twice with the lowest being 27F
BCUSA 10x10 tarp with cordage 21oz
Sprawler UL Bivy 6oz
JRB Shenandoah quilt 15oz
Ridgerest Solite 16oz

I was warm in my base layers at 39 but the 27 one I slept in my clothes because I didnt want to trust a 40F quilt that low without them turns out I was warm and had to unzip the bivy a bit

At night I take the pack off the tree and use it as a pillow
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I use the mest tarp as a door that I can tie out of the way
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It went so well I figured I could use it full time to replace my MSS. I was a little wrong ;-)

With the ridgerest Solite and the MSS I've been to -10F in a hammock and on the ground with it. Since I felt I was warmer with my new setup than I was with mss bivy and green patrol bag I was good changing to a heavier quilt and keeping just the ridgerest for the ground but I'd add in a SOL 1P heat sheet as a ground sheet to go even colder.

So I grabbed my -5F hammock quilt because I can wear that one as a serape, trying to give myself a 10 degree cushion and with windchills predicted to -15F, which I had done with that quilt in my hammock already twice, it seemed like the right choice.

Just need to add the door
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Anticipating frost and trying to prevent my breath from eventually snowing on me but still wanting 360ish protection I staked the MEST separately to create a gap and to make a quick release / close door
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Got about another inch of snow overnight which showed me I need to work out the sides and that the snow collects around or on top of my feet
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Went to sleep on my side and everything warmed up in 5 minutes to the point where I wondered if I'd overheat... no worries there!! I woke up 3 hours later shivering and a real cold spot on my hip that wasn't on the ground. I realized first that the quilt was all loose around my neck and the wind was really coming in through the gap I created with the MEST and going directly under the quilt so I used the snap on the quilt and cinched it down around my neck and that was better and I drifted off again. Shortly later more drafts even with the neck sealed better, I then realized there were gaps further down and I had loops on the quilt I could use to pull it together but I'm a big guy and that seemed like it would be hard to get in and out of it and was worried about damaging the quilt and being in worse shape. I just tried laying on it and that worked until I fell asleep and moved. I was good but I never got warm like I normally do. Usually under the quilts with me in the hammock its over 80 and I haven't had it ever drop below 75F. This ground trip not the case. Time is wrong and the outside thermometer died on me in the cold but that's the temp under the quilts with me at 3am.
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I was getting condensation, the winds which had been quiet really picked up now and I figured I just wanted to sleep till dawn, 3 more hours away, so rather than putting clothes on, yes I'm in base layers, I grabbed my woobie out of my pack and put that under me, I figured I had a active dry down quilt and I cocooned myself into the quilt and hoped my breath wouldn't make the bag wet or the woobie wet, cracked a hand warmer and put it on my hip that was crushing the quilt and fell off to sleep until my alarm. I woke up not cold but not warm either. I put my clothes on in the bivy and warmed them up before I got up and then my insulated pants. During all the warming up of the clothes I started chuckling because I started getting too warm and could've been that warm all night if I hadn't been being stubborn

I had to sleep near the front of the shelter to keep the snow off my feet so I don't know if that impacted the amount of wind I was getting as compared to the back of the shelter
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Had my new Rush 72 out for the first time, pretty comfortable pack and roomy. I think it's close to 50L
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Also tried to see if the condor insulated water bottle holder would suffice in these temps with out a hand warmer... nope
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It was a good trip and as a winter emergency shelter/sleep system under 5lbs any time of year it worked great, for a comfort trip I've got some more tuning to do.

I'm going to try my 5 -15F quilt next since I was crushing the -5F quilt with 4" loft against the bivy when I was side sleeping and couldn't keep the drafts out without the bivy and being able to fasten/secure the bivy under me. I think the bivy might make up the difference temperature wise even though I'd be giving up a 1/2" of loft in quilts. The other test would be to use shock cord and carabiners to secure the tabs of the quilt and leave an easy disconnect to get out to control the drafts in and out of the bivy for either quilt. The other thing is to get a ground pad with a r value of 4 or better, when I tried laying on my back the top of me would be warm but the pad wasn't up to the task for keeping the back of me warm its only got an r value of 1.6. With the MSS I think the two bags even through crushed beneath you make up the difference

I know its not ultralight but it's not bad

Do you guys test your systems?
 
Awesome post and review. I liked seeing the pics. I really need to start doing some overnight cold camping excursions too. That’s some good thinking.
 
Great pics, looks like you had fun!
I expected to see some fire in one of these pictures ;)

Thanks for sharing :)
 
What was for dinner?

There's nothing beats a hot cooked dinner out in the wilds when it's cold.
 
That's a pretty interesting combo, would not have thought of that. Looks satisfying.

One thing I learnt long ago is when backpacking you tend to throw every bit of food you possess in the same pot and cook it all together, your body just craves everything at once. This looks like that kind of recipe but designed to taste good.
 
I spice it up and adjust the cheese or fritos to my mood. Its become one of my favorites his cous cous one is another one I like a lot and is easy to cook just keep it in a separate bag otherwise that curry works its scent into everything lol
 
I wanted 120F above down to 10F without a fire, and I got it, with 4 lbs of gear, to include the hammock, but there's 3 lbs of "extra" clothing, and I had to cheat and say that the wool shirt and pants were "normal wear" I wanted this for the BOB, and decided that I'd be a lot more likely to find warm clothing (on dead bodies, most likely) in the summer than I'd be likely to find heavy clothing in the winter (fast enough to save myself) I could either cut off the arms and legs of the milsurp wool clothing, or just wear the polypro under wear, I suppose.

The trick was layering mylar, bug netting, "frost-cloth" and fiberglass reinforced bug netting. This system is mainly intended for hammock use. Its quite rare, anyplace that I'd be, that there's not at least one tree that I can hang the gear from. With the help of a sedative, it's quite feasible to sleep in a "sling-chair", with one's back tied to the tree trunk and the rolled-up shemaugh serving as a neck brace.

Remove the regular clothing, slip it into a drumliner and put it under you, outside of the system, so it stays dry. Wear nothing inside of the system that can get wet. Have a bandana with which to wipe down insulation that forms on the "breathable" SOL escape bivvy bag. This one is a mummy shape, with velcro seams, and a drawstring hood. There's also a drawstring at the neck and velcro seams. the other bags have snaps all around, measure 6x8 ft rectangles, with 3/4" wide cloth strips all around. The bugnet bag is not just folded over. It's 2 separate pieces, so that i can have a bug net at either end of an A frame shelter, and so I can cover my torso and head while hiking, or have the complete encasement of the bag, if need be. The hammock is made out of a monofilament gillnet, with the lead weights removed. I can always tie on pebbles if I need to use it for foraging. 100x6 ft, 3" mesh. Folded back on itself 3x, it ends up being 12 ft long. Mule tape secures it to the trees. If you use a sharpened stick to kill the fish caught in it, (so you dont cut the net) it is possible to extract your catch without tearing holes in the net, and if you carry more of the fishline, you can always patch holes in it.

None of this gear is effected by its getting wet, nearly all of it is useful in hot weather too, and there's no zippers to jam or break. If I have to lay on the ground, I dig hip and shoulder depressions, which helps quite a bit with comfort. The 5 lb of soft armor boxer shorts and vest add quite a bit to the ability to be comfortable at cold temps. If need be, a Dakota pit, in half an hour, can heat rocks to bury under you, or water bottles that can be taken inside of the sleep system with you. These 2 dodges, a hot drink and a bit of exercise, in the bag, will give you 2-3 hours of adequate warmth at colder temps. Again, a sedative is a big help at getting enough rest to be able to carry on.

If need be, this gear can form a super shelter with a fire, the clear plastic bag, fiberglass thread reinforced, forming the front of the lean-to. Have clear package tape with you, to repair the burn holes that pretty much always occur! :) On the far side of the fire, a stick "wall", fronted by a chunk of the flimsy metallized plastic will reflect a lot more of the fire's heat towards you. If you can find some big, flat rocks, they can be propped up over a long trench fire, radiating more heat towards you, and soaking up heat so you can bury them under you, at a later point.

the thing that seems to always be overlooked, with super shelters, is " what keeps you warm and dry as you gather all that firewood? :) the inner bag of my system, due to the velcro seams, can be worn as a poncho as that wood gets arranged-for

i think that the 4-bag system can be marketed for $150, maybe less, for the homeless. It's good to about freezing temps, without the armor, the inner mylar bag and the polypropylene stuff (ie, longjohns, another, looser pair of polypro pants, polypro neck gaiter, gloves, balaclava, and 2 pairs of socks) buttons and loops in back serve to keep the shirt from riding up, exposing your kidneys. If it's not a bugout situation, then a fire can be used, with the gear set up as a super-shelter. The military says that hostilities almost cease at 10F, so that's why I set that as my goal, without a fire, but achieving it adds a lot more hassle, and expense to the system. However, that additional cold weather gear adds only about 3 lbs of weight and a couple of football sized addition to the bulk.

When you dont have the polypro clothing, you'll have to get nude inside of the "heavy duty" mylar, and have the "frost cloth" between your body and the mylar. When you do have the polypro clothing, then the frost cloth goes between the 5th, "breathable" SOL type bag and the heavy duty mylar bag.

At first, I tried having velcro all around all the bags, but it was an unbeleivable pita to make and to use, so I went with snaps instead. Due to the warm air leakage between the snaps (which are positioned 3" apart around the edges of each bag) i added the 3/4" strip of cloth as a partial seal. It does seem to help, but it's a royal pain to sew onto the system.

Everything in this setup can of course be opened flat, which lends itself to utility in warmer weather. The heavy duty mylar and the clear plastic will snap together to become a rain and wind shelter. I dont care at all for open lean-tos. They are almost always either letting in bugs or rain/wind/cold, or smoke from the fire, and they let your warmth escape. Notice that nobody builds, or buys/rents a home that has one side open to the elements? :) Lean-tos may have been the best that could be achieved, 70+ years ago, but that's no longer the case. When your sleep system is not effected by rain, and if it blocks the wind, you dont need the additional bulk and weight of a shelter.
 
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Well, it’s fortunate that this user is banned, as I do not feel the need to reply in full to this mixture of sensible and ludicrous stream of consciousness. :rolleyes:
 
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