Emerson Commander?

N

neo4000

Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Messages
8
Hey Everyone,

My first post here and I just lost my old S&W SWAT knife a month ago and am looking for somthing better for EDC use. The Emerson Commander has really caught my eye though some websites have given it less than stellar reviews - http://www.zvis.com/knives/folding/emrcmdr.shtml(Though he says that he dislikes it because of its chisel grind, but on the Emerson website it says the Commander has a conventional v grind. Are these related?) Anyway, I am also intrested in the BM Axis AFCK. I've heard lots of good things about this one and really like the Axis lock. So I was wondering if someone could give some opinions about these knives and maybe recommend some other knives like these.

Thanks in advance,

neo4000
 
neo4000 - welcome to the forums! Consider it a blessing that you lost your S&W SWAT :D The Commander's blade is ground on both sides (V grind), but only is sharpened on one side, which is why the reviewer said it is a chisel grind (IMO a true chisel grind means the blade, not the cutting edge, is ground on one side leaving the opposite side flat).

I have both the Commander and Axis AFCK, and they are among my favorite production pieces. Though, the Axis AFCK is a better all around cutting tool than the Commander is. Either way, both are great knives that are well built and should serve you well.
 
Hey Neo,
The EKI Commander would surely be a worth it buy, and an upgrade from the S&W knife you had...the essential features the Commander posseses which is unique to EKI knives, is firstly, the Wave®, which is a small hook like device located on the upper portion of the blade itself, just before the handle, this aids in the opening process, and is definitely one of the highlights of EKI's Waved® series,[Comm, Sark, SOCFK, CQC]and I have quite a "few" of Emerson knives, and thus far, i've found them to be what they are touted as, tough, strong and reliable...
secondly, on the issue about the Chisel grind, what the Commander has, is basically a combination of the 2, the blade is ground in the Conventional V-Grind pattern, but only sharpened in the Chisel ground pattern, thus the confusion...and unless you really require such a precision cut-line, they function perfectly, Emersons are good knives, and can be trusted....however, recently, i've been influenced by the Strider® knives, and to many they might seem overkill, but they are definitely built like a tank...
 
I would go with the AFCK myself, if a choice between those two were all I had.

And I just have to ask, why put a conventional V-grind on a blade and sharpen only one side?
 
mikemck,
I believe the choice for a conventional V-grind is for a more "centred" cutting line, and for easier control, without a cutting "bias" towards the left or the right, the "Chisel-Sharpening", however, could be as put by Mr E.Emerson himself,

"There are several reasons for the chisel grind. For any of you who have ever used a
correctly sharpened wood chisel for woodworking, you know what a chisel can do.
Although a knife is not a chisel, those properties, when applied to a knife grind have
almost magical effect. A chisel ground knife, being beveled, (ground) on one side
only, possesses greater strength, (due to increased cross sectional mass) and they
cut with an ease not found on any other type of blade. This is because there is no
parasitic drag produced by the flat side when cutting no drag points. On top of
that, they are much easier to sharpen you only have to sharpen one side."

Hope that helps...
 
IMO, the Commander is an excellent design.
I have a mini-Commander which is built like a tank, the only gripe I have is the one I have, the plain part of the edge is so thickly ground that it cannot cut at all, it is almost not a cutting edge; the serrated portion not only cuts fine, but is ground at a far less steep angle than the plain portion.

I have examined some full-sized commanders, and have found the edges on those to be much sharper and ground thinner at the edge...maybe because the mini's and full-sized are the same blade thickness, the larger, wider blades allow for a thinner edge on the full-sizes?:confused:

The V-grind with chisel edge on Emersons can be quite useful so long as the edge is not ground too steep. I have a couple CQC7-A's and can use them from cutting up boxes or rope, to even slicing up fruit. These edges come much thinner than the mini-Commander I own. I resharpened one of my 7-A's on my Sharpmaker and had no problem with the single-side grind, just make sure you're at the knife's angle, not straight up and down on the Sharpmaker.
Jim
 
Linjunpei,
The quoted justification has nothing to do with real life conditions and even simply common sense. Sorry to say but it is just one of the trials to mess the sense of inexperienced reader, at least not first and not last around...

Real chisel (woodworker’s tool) is ground and sharpened on the single side not to improve cutting performance. Cutting performance depends on the sharpness, in another words on edge beveling angle but not on the fact is the edge symmetric or not. Quite inversely, the best cutting performance can be obtained pressing and moving the edge directly in its symmetry plane. Just sketch this on the sheet of paper and you will see it without any additional explanation.

The chisel is ground this way to provide precise cutting and flat cut surface on the one side (where the blade is flat) without any care to another side where are the chips only. Try to do the same with the chisel held upside down (with the flat side upward) and you couldn’t cut any precisely.

But the knife is not the chisel, it is intended for basically another tasks. If chisel ground or/and single side sharpened blades would be any good all manufacturers would use them but they do not. Additionally Emerson’s knives are sharpened on the wrong side for right-handed user. Whittling the wood in proper direction (away from your body) you obtain the same result as working with held upside down chisel. No theory, jus try to convince yourself.

So why some people buy and use such blades? Only because they believe these blades have some covered advantages according advertising you have quoted. Or simply because they like them. But to like and to state it’s right is not the same. Millions of people chow down hamburgers because thy like them but this doesn’t make them (hamburgers) nor tasty neither healthy.
 
i would get a EKI SOCFK myself, although the BM 806 is great too, ya cant go wrong w/either imho

greg
 
I'm with sergiusz here.. chisel ground edges on a V ground blade is rather dumb. If it had a reason, like when they coated buck 110's with ti-nitrate, and sharpened them one-sided to actually cut with the coating, because it is mucho harder then the stee used.

That chisel edge had a reason.. and it was a bummer.. buck sold a lot, but it never became a hit, because of the chisle ground edge.

I used the chisel ground edge.. and it's nice for cutting string and other stuff.. but a straight line trough cardboard? OK if you pratice.
and even then the chisel edge is funny at times.

In my opinion it is simply too expensive to train people to sharpen a knife properly on both sides whithout a wire edge. Anyone can put a chisel edge on a knife.. but a well ground double symmetrical edge... The people at Chris Reeve train people to sharpen Sebbies properly, and the training takes a few months or so.

Go with BM AFCK, I have the 806 and it's great. I think EKI is going down hill.. they make good knives, and then started cutting down.. from the 98 commander to the current... Give me the 98 if any :D

However.. EKI's were never made for general use.. they are defenisve tools, and in that they are much better then the general Benchmade. What does it matter if you wanna slash at someone if you hit a straight line or make a curve and start a few mm to the side? It won't really matter :D

greetz and take care, Bart.
 
If you're going to go with a BM, I'd definitely recommend a 942. I've been carrying one for about 2 month's and although I rotate a dozen others for EDC the 942 is ALWAYS there in my pocket.
 
Bart's assessment is on the money.
I am also of the opinion that Emerson 2002 is not nearly the Emerson of 1998.
 
Commander is a good looking knife but I don't find the blade practical for an EDC.
It will be a good self defense knife.
 
I'm a big Commander fan... I have a 2000 partially serrated satin finished model... its been my EDC almost always since i got it, nearly 2 years ago... I find it strong, capable of taking and holding a good edge, user friendly, comfortable, and a good EDC utility knife.
And, its also an excelelnt defensive choice.

I dont have any experiance with the AXIS AFCK, but based on my reading, and handling a few AXIS lock knives, I dont trust the AXIS as much as I do the liner lock... not that I dont think it would hold, I just worry about accidentally disengaging it during use, especially defensive.
The AFCK design in general tho, is excellent... I gave an old style (round hole, liner lock) plain edge AFCK to my girlfriend for her birthday a couple months ago... I wouldnt have given it to her if I didnt trust it to be a good quality, very capable knife, for defense and utility... and nothing has proven me wrong aobut it yet, and doubt it will.

The Commander has a big selling point for me, The Wave... there is nothing else like it, nothing else as fast, nothing else as unique. Its the best, IMO.
Combine that with great ergonomics, an excelelnt blade shape, with lots of cutting power, and still very capable of stabbing, and comfort in carrying, and you have a winner.
The AFCK has all those things (altho the ones I've handled dont feel quite as good in my hand as the Commander) but it doesnt have the Wave.
Also, for regular thumb opening, I prefer a thumb disk over any other type of opener.

The choice for me would be a Commander, betweent he two, if for nothing else but the Wave and Liner lock versus Axis issues. (Lock stuff could all be in my mind, but its my choice tot hink like that an act based on it... I dont want an "axis versus whatever" pissing contest to start here, just stating my feelings.)
 
Yes,I think Sergiusz Mitin has it right.

A convex edge will outcut a chisel edge, in my opinion, and would make more sense.

The wave surely is a neat idea, and I myself like it. That's why I will be very glad when emersons patent on it finally runs out, and some other companies can use it also...it's right about this time that I predict emerson sales will dramtically fall off.

The '98 commanders are nice, especially compared to any other commanders.

Maybe about the time the patent is set to expire the '98 commanders that everyone wants will be trotted out again.

Or maybe a "custom commander" will be offered, bearing a suspicious resemblance to the '98 version.

Or maybe a "collectible" model will be offered through the new ECA, for members only.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but a good quality waved model from any company will be a nice option, in my opinion.

As for SD, any knife I own would make a suitable SD knife for me, as they all have a sharp edge and are capable of cutting skin and cloth, even though they can't really be whipped out in reverse grip ready to strike down on someone at a moment's notice.
 
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