Emerson Lock Troubles

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Mar 10, 2006
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46
Emerson Liner Question

I've had my CQC-7 for the better part of five years and I have a question...the liner lock has gradually moved over towards the other side liner. The knife appears to still lock up tightly as there is no "play" in the blade or the liner when back pressure is applied to the blade as if to collapse the knife. I was told by a couple of folks this is a bad thing and I just want your opinion.

BTW...my wife put my pants (with the CQC7 still clipped into the pocket) into the washing machine and washed it. I just took the knife apart and cleaned it through, but the liner seems to have traveled almost too far and it looks as if a section of the liner is not even on the knife when it's open. Do I have to send it back and wait two weeks again...? Thoughts?:(
 
try a GENTLE whack on your palm or a carpeted floor to see if its still locking up, if it is it might be ok, at least for a while, but ya should keep an eye on it, i have a BM 975 which goes all the way over and it still locks ok with no slippping, but no its not a good thing lol.

send it in to EKI for repair if it is slipping, or if ya just want the peace of mind, or to STR i suppose.
 
the liner lock has gradually moved over towards the other side liner.The knife appears to still lock up tightly as there is no "play" in the blade or the liner when back pressure is applied to the blade as if to collapse the knife.

If there is no play then its still locked up. As long as the lock is not slipping off the tang or anything its still a solid lock up.
If the lock goes all the way over its basically getting nearer the end of its functional life so as stated keep and eye out.

it looks as if a section of the liner is not even on the knife when it's open.

If the lock is set up properly you wont have the full lock face contacting the blade tang, you should have contact on the "bottom" of the tang (the bit nearest your finger when the knife is open) That allong with the stop pin is what hold the blade in place.

If you have any concerns contact EKI or STR and they will sort you out im sure.

Iv also washed a few Emersons and it did them no harm at all so i wouldnt worry about that :D:thumbup:
 
I see the post so no need to track me down. I have seen your problem a time or three. Its been covered pretty well for you so far by the other guys but the problem when this happens can be many fold. If the washers are smaller in outside diameter on that knife and don't physically block the blade from actually leaving the contact even partially when it travels all the way across as some do this can be problematic if you are one that tends to carry your Waved folder with lateral blade play. What has happened in the past is the lock gets stuck inbetween that space between the blade and the liner where the washer sits. If it happens during use it can even sometimes partially shear part of the lock face if enough force is used when this happens. I've seen them tweak thinner locks to kind of kink them at the end near the detent and I've seen them actually push the detent in so far it barely contacted the blade anylonger also. Or at least I'm guessing this is what caused it from wedging the lock in there good.

I see a great many Emersons for all kinds of work whether it be new scales, a frame lock conversion or just a low rider clip even though I don't recommend it with a Waved folder and many times the blades on these EKI's have lateral (side to side) play. I've been told the guys just loosen them to where the Wave opens the easiest and I think many don't realize this leads to blade wobble and it can lead to lost stop pins if you happen to get one with a shorter pin than is standard or you just let it get really sloppy loose in the pivot and believe me some do. I've replaced more than one stop for Emerson knives and many others from Kabars to you name it that have flopping loose rattling stop pins vs ones that are screwed down.

You have to realize the stop on that knife relies on the pivot tension to be as secure as possible and since many Emerson folders tend to loosen themselves up at the pivot somehow with opening and closing the blades this has apparently led to some problems with that but not enough to warrant a change in design from Ernie I don't think. Once you lose a stop pin it will be the last time you let it happen trust me. You'll look for it and stay on top of it after that.

Anyway, the lock sounds solid to me regarding the play issue that comes up but if it slides under pressure like described in my tips and tricks thread here in my forum on page one top the page its not good no matter how you look at it. Also, if your lock is partially leaving the blade crossing clear across the lock interface it needs an adjustment and the bottom line is if you send it to me the warranty is voided. If you let EKI do it its not. Send it to EKI if this is important to you.

I tend to like bumping up the stop pin to the next bigger size vs the lock peening method but I'll do it either way depending on how the lock foot print looks to me. Hard to explain what I mean there so I'll pass up trying to do that for now. The peen technique is quick and easy and a lot of folks use this old cutlers trick but its also one that can lead to sticky locks that can hurt your thumb to release them until it breaks in well. That is the only repair I have ever seen Emerson do but this does not mean they won't do something else for you if you discuss it with them.

I assume your lock will look much like many other thinner liner locks I see. Here is a shot of what you typically find from one doing what you describe in symptoms. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95216&d=1208822756

You can see here in the picture I've attached at the link the old Waveless Commander lock taken out of the folder. Note the indent where the lock contacts the blade. Peening is simply that. You place a flat end round punch on the lock precisely set so its squishing out just a bit more contact once its tapped with just the right amount of force to make the lock contact renew itself by forcing the metal back out to rid it of that indent and any vertical play.

Whenever I get a folder that has had this done to it the tell tale sign is this here shot as seen in the attached picture below. You can see the place where it was squished quite easily on some. Others have multiples where its been done once and then again behind it. This knife is a Kershaw Ricohet sent to me by a knife maker that bought the knife new, loved it and carried it many years and when I saw into it and asked him about making the adjustments he swears he didn't do it. I know I didn't do it. I rebuild the lock completely for him at his request. On many of these you can see this peen mark by looking in the folder. It is not always necessary to break them down to tell. That was the case on this Ricochet.

As I understand it from speaking with other knife makers they will sometimes do this peening on new locks they just made so its not always just a wear issue and not really all that uncommon to see a lock thats been tweaked a bit to custom fit it better to the contact while still fresh if the maker or cutler in production lines deem it necessary. This technique to tighten up a lock has been around since the early days of brass liner locks. I have also seen other new production folders besides this Kershaw that had this peen mark visible on it and I know they were new and never torn apart before in some cases because they belonged to me. On others of course you take the word of the individual who owned the folder so I say this based on that hearsay and can't speak for how the companies do things 100%.

It has been reported to me that some makers feel compressing their titanium lock there at the contact by this method and heat treating it right after this makes the lock contact wear better by making it more densely packed where the wear will take place and then the heat treat is for covering it with a very hard to get rid of anodized heat colored layer. There may be something to that I don't know. Its just come up in conversations. I do know that the colored layer put on by heat vs anodizing is for sure harder to get rid of by bead blasting. Its much harder to remove if you heat it actually.

Anyway sorry for the rant on and on. I'm just trying to cover it for you. Give a call to EKI tomorrow and talk with Diane who does repairs there and see what she recommends for it. Thats the best course of action I think. Whatever you do don't peen it yourself though. You can very easily shear the lock or fracture it or even punch a whole clean through it if you have no idea how much force you need to use to get away with this type job successfully. It is so easy to not realize your own strength and do more harm than good so I urge caution if you or anyone else reading this gets any bright ideas. Its not uncommon to tweak it so much the lock won't even engage so let the experienced take care of it. :thumbup:

Good luck no matter what you decide.
Thanks for the referals guys.

STR
 
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