Emerson Pivot Washers

B

bearcut

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Sep 3, 2006
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I just got three knew knives, one of which is an Emerson A-100 satin plane edge.
This is my first Emerson. Nice knife by the way.

I cycled the opening a few hundred times and noticed the action getting rougher.

So, I lubed it.
Yeah I know, bad idea, even with a high quality lube.

Sure enough, it made it worse.

I disassembled it and cleaned all the slurry off. It works nice and smooth now.
(Not even two hours with a new knife and I’m already getting intimate. Interesting design near the pivot though.)

All that to ask one question:
What are the washers made of? They aren’t nylon and don’t appear to be phosphorous bronze. Are they Teflon coated?
 
I thought they were Teflon washers.

I stand corrected.

The pivot assembly consists of a special double sleeved pivot bolt which ... side by two self-lubricating nylatron washer bearings which provide the smooth...
Click to expand...

From http://www.emersonknives.com/Mag_Article_a.html

FWIW I'm never worried about taking my knife apart and lubing it. If it's so complicated that I can't put it back together, something is seriously wrong. Perfection through simplicity.
 
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OK, thanks guys.

Nitrolon or nylatron, one or the other.
Sounds like some sort of plastic anyway.

They are really thin and that’s good.
 
Nylatron, its a teflon impregnated nylon that is supposed to give the lubricity and smoothness of full nylon washers with the strength and durability of bronze washers.
 
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I find a wee spot of something like tuff glide to help keep crap out of the pivot area helps.
Those washers are supposed to need no lube but I do find a little bit does help.
 
Actually as far as washers go they are thick. .030 is the usual measurement for Emerson washers, which is twice as thick as many others I see and still thicker than the .020 often seen in other brands of production folders. Washers in customs and production models can range from .002-.003 to .005 .010 .015 .020 .030 and onwards. They can be nylon, teflon, nylatron, or phosphorus bronze with varying degrees of copper content even with those.

Thats why I caution folks from just buying some on a picture in a catalog not knowing the info you need before proceeding with the purchase. First you need the pivot barrel diameter to gauge how big the center hole has to be on your new washers. With Emersons its a 1/4" pivot barrel. So the inside diameter is .250. Second the outside diameter. Emerson uses two sets. One a set that has two identical washers. The other a set that has a smaller outside diameter washer. You want to get it right or you can end up blocking the detent ball that keeps the blade closed in the pocket (if it works as its supposed to I mean) You also want to make note of where the washers go when you have a model using two different washers. If you place the big washer on some models in the wrong side it can partially block or interfere with lock function. Not necessarily Emersons here that you need to worry with so much.

Then after you've determined your inside diameter, and outside diameter you can look at the thickness. If you have .030 washers in there now and get new PB (phosphorus bronze washer) to replace those thinking you'll "upgrade" and get .015 washers or .010 guess what? You've just squeezed in and will end up wondering whats wrong when it does not tighten correctly or seems to have a funky action that doesn't act right. Generally speaking you have a margin for error on most folders. For example if the rear stand offs or rear spacer is .190 you can have a .200 pivot when you add blade thickness and washers on each side. It can even be a little over that or a little under by the same amount and you see that in production and custom knives all the time. On others, usually higher dollar ones made by some guys that are very anal retentive about details you find that the rear stand offs are made to space the rear very close if not identical to what the blade thickness and washers measure so its all nice and flat and even when all squeezed together.

Even the master of the tactical folder (Bob Terzuola) uses nylatron washers. They are one I use a lot myself.

STR
 
i swapped the washers on my SOCFK to bronze and ended up going back to the nytrolons, i liked 'em better.
 
STR said:
Actually as far as washers go they are thick.

Even the master of the tactical folder (Bob Terzuola) uses nylatron washers. They are one I use a lot myself.

STR
Click to expand...

.030 eh? Well, what do I know?:p

Nylatron, Thanks.

I didn't think Nitrolon sounded right. That material is, among other things, what Surefire uses in it's budget flashlight bodies.

So tell me, is it better to LIGHTLY lube synthetic, (nylon, nylatron), washers or not?
Some manufactures say it isn't beneficial nor desireable at all.
What say you?

I usually lightly lube the pivot sleeve and blade hole, at the very least, since that has metal to metal contact.
 
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I lightly lube the detent ball on many frame locks. If the knives in question came to me from a customer with a lube on things when I first opened it up I leave it that way when it leaves figuring thats how they like it. I've lubed them to make them feel good putting a thin coat or layer on the metal surfaces and then wiped that off to leave just a thinner film of it at times and prefer dry lubes such as Tuff Glide that go on wet and dry in a few minutes after exposing it to the air.

Too much lubing is a good way to develop lint build up and grime that can actually hold silica and other things in there causing it to rub around being forced into areas it should not be and get ground into both the washers and the sides of the scales or liners as well as the blade. If you lube your pivots and detents keeping your pockets cleaned out is a must. On a knife carried deep in the pocket where its rolling around down deep with a bucket full of pocket crap most times it can really start to collect some crap in there and then sticking to the lube in the pivot areas or on the excess seeping out from others. More than once an end line user has mailed me a knife with a faulty lock only to have me discover a big ball of lint jammed down in it keep the lock from engaging.

If the folder is pinned together to where you can't dissassemble it its going to be a lot harder to clean that gunk out too once this happens but it can be done although never as thoroughly I don't think. You can use a degreaser and kitchen dishwashing soap on a good stainless one and blast it with air leaving it in the sun to dry or if you take time to do it and have some simple small detail tools like some old dental explorers and scales you can at least work around the areas easily gotten to.

On a new knife, lubing prematurely before even using it can also slow down the break in some if the knife you bought is one known for needing a break in. Many seem to come slick as all get out ready to go right out of the box these days and thats always nice too but a seemingly great many more require a good old fashioned break in period to get them all smoothed out nicely.

Some knives respond better to lubing than others and on some that are screw type construction such as the Emersons I'd say its a matter of personal pref really over anything written in stone. If after lubing you notice upon the next cleaning that its a royal mess inside then I'd say its an indicator to stop lubing the pivot. At least you won't need dental explorers and scales to try to clean the thing out.

STR
 
I usually cycle a new knife several hundred times before I put any lube on it, especially if the blade is coated. Break in is a necessary evil with some knives so it doesn’t bother me.
Can’t smooth things out if you keep lubricating it!

My Emerson was getting rougher duriing break in though, that's why I decided to lube it.

I too put a bit of lube on the detent ball after break in. I’m hip to the friction area there.

I don’t use cheap vegetable based oils or anything that gets gummy. I have been using Corrosion X for guns lately.

I do use lubricant very sparingly because I don’t like the dirt and lint attractant. My pocket stays pretty clean anyway. I dedicate one pocket to a knife, nothing else.

So, it sounds like lube on a synthetic washer is really not necessary if the (broken in) knife is functioning smoothly?
 
I have a bottle of Rem-Oil, they are suppose to be the best. But I'm not sure if we are suppose to lube plastic/petrol based polymers. I think the lube might corrode them.
 
never has hurt any of mine & i lube all the time with either rem oil or tuffglide, over a period of the last 10 yrs or so.
 
if the blade is coated- take off all the coating under the washers. i use a fine flat head follewed by relatively coarse and the super fine/crocus cloth.

also, hit the inside of the liners under where the washers goes with teh 2 types of above sandpaper.

i have done this on every emerson i have owned, and it makes it smooth as glass. i use a tiny bit of lube when re assembling.

the coating makes the action really crappy under those washers
 
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