Emission test question.

tyr_shadowblade

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
12,687
Recently moved to Colorado where the got this new thing -- pre-registration emission tests for automobiles. Mine passed today, and all the levels were well into the PASS range except one -- NOx, which tested at 1.49 -- and the limit is 1.50 :eek: so I passed by, what, a hundredth of a percent?

Anyhow, the printout sez that a high NOx reading usually means either high combustion temperature or high combustion pressure. I'm assuming that's bad? Should I be concerned about this? Any suggestions for lowering the NOx emissions? I admit total ignorance of such matters.

Just looked at another state's (MD) allowable levels and they are 2.2, so I'm assuming CO is super strict. All other levels were well below the limits.

Vehicle in question is a 99 Camry XLE with a Japanese V6 and approx 150K on the odometer. Not due for another test for 2 years.

Thanks.
 
Yes, NOx emissions are related to combustion temperature. Combustion temperature is affected by many variables in an automotive system. You could have a lean fuel/air mixture, faulty EGR system, converter problem, or a host of other things going on.

If you have no CHECK ENGINE light on and the vehicle seems to running smoothly, I wouldn't worry about it. That is of course unless you have really deep pockets and can't think of a better way to spend money :D

A pass is a pass even if its by 0.01%. My advise to you is if everything seems fine except for the number on the paper, is when your next emissions test is due, take the car in a month or so early and have it tested. That way if it fails you have time to get it looked at and repaired.

happy motoring

Brad
www.AndersonKnives.ca
 
A 1999 Camry shouldn't have any problems passing with good margin.

My guess is that the EGR valve is not working quite right. I don't know about the 1999 Camry specifically, but EGR valves are very often quite DIYable and not expensive.

NOx is Nitrous Oxide. You may have heard of vehicles with "Nitrous injection systems" where they actually have a tank of this gas aboard and inject a shot of it into the intake when they want a sudden boost in performance. This same gas is actually produced as a byproduct of buring gasoline. So, there's some of it in your exhaust gas. EGR stands for exhaust gas recirculation. This valve actually allows a bit of your exhaust gas to get back into your intake and that bit of NOx gives your car a bit of a performance boost... quite literally for free.
 
You didn't say where in Colorado you moved to, if it is a city with high altitude that could be making your engine run hotter thus the increase. Simple enough for your mechanic to fix, they just need to tell your car's computer to compensate for the change in altitude.
 
You didn't say where in Colorado you moved to, if it is a city with high altitude that could be making your engine run hotter thus the increase. Simple enough for your mechanic to fix, they just need to tell your car's computer to compensate for the change in altitude.

Just moved from Norfolk VA -- which is a few feet below sea level -- to Denver CO, which is a "mile high."

Check engine light has been on for about a year. Every couple months I get it retested to see if a new code has popped up. Stays off for a few weeks then comes back on. Something about an EVAP thing, which could be a 3-way valve or a charcoal cannister. Recently a CAT code popped up as well. As long as it starts when I turn the key and drives where I need to go I'm not too worried about it at the moment. But should I be?
 
It's probably nothing to keep you from driving it,these emissions tests are getting to be a PITA,I'm going back to driving pre emission vehicles.Your Catalytic converter is probably on it's way out,what happens is the catalyst starts to go bad and restricts the exhaust flow,that in turn raises temps in the combustion chamber.If you take it to a shop to get it fixed,be prepared for about a $1200.00 bill,my son's girlfriends car was just diagnosed and that was what a shop in NJ quoted her to fix it.I've got a '96 S10 that had one go bad a few years ago and I just emptied it at the time and continued to drive it.A few years back NY started emissions tests,so far I've been able to get it to pass but it's been a trick most times.;)
 
Wait until Colorado goes the way of California, with dyno-smog tests and "gross polluter" flags, I.E. mandatory testing EVERY YEAR, with the smog testing costing a hundred bucks or more.
 
high NOx reading usually means either high combustion temperature or high combustion pressure

That's about it -- when you're burning gas most efficiently, getting the maximum temperature and pressure in your combustion chamber, the temperature and pressure are so high that some of the nitrogen in the air burns too and you get a little NOx. If you were over the NOx limit you would have to "fix" that by reducing the efficiency of your engine, but since you're not over the limit that's the last thing you want to do. You lucked out, your engine is adjusted perfectly. :)
 
They do have a smog problem in CO along the mountains, Boulder, Denver etc.
 
A 1999 Camry shouldn't have any problems passing with good margin.

My guess is that the EGR valve is not working quite right. I don't know about the 1999 Camry specifically, but EGR valves are very often quite DIYable and not expensive.

NOx is Nitrous Oxide. You may have heard of vehicles with "Nitrous injection systems" where they actually have a tank of this gas aboard and inject a shot of it into the intake when they want a sudden boost in performance. This same gas is actually produced as a byproduct of buring gasoline. So, there's some of it in your exhaust gas. EGR stands for exhaust gas recirculation. This valve actually allows a bit of your exhaust gas to get back into your intake and that bit of NOx gives your car a bit of a performance boost... quite literally for free.


Nitrous oxide (N2O) is not the same as oxides of nitrogen (N0x).
Nitrous oxide is indeed used in race applications to increase horsepower output.

Oxides of nitrogen (NOx) ( the x being a variable, depending on how much oxygen is present in the combustion chamber) is a major contributor to photo chemical smog as well as acid rain.

The intent of NOx being recirculated into the intake stream of your engine by way of the EGR valve is to reduce combustion temperatures that cause NOx formation in the first place. This also slightly reduces combustion efficiency as pointed out by Cougar Allen and therefore in fact reduces performance.

---------------------------

Altitude should not increase NOX emissions. Higher altitude=less oxygen=richer mixture=cooler combustion=less NOx. Most vehicles are also equipped with a barometric pressure sensor that resets to the current altitude the vehicle is at every time you shut the key off and turn it back on. The computer is programmed with different mapping tables for different altitudes and substitutes different these tables depending on readings from the baro sensor.

"Check engine light has been on for about a year. Every couple months I get it retested to see if a new code has popped up. Stays off for a few weeks then comes back on. Something about an EVAP thing, which could be a 3-way valve or a charcoal cannister. Recently a CAT code popped up as well. As long as it starts when I turn the key and drives where I need to go I'm not too worried about it at the moment. But should I be?"

An evap code is cause by something being wrong in the evaporative emissions system. The evap system is designed to prevent gas fumes from your fuel tank being expelled to the atmosphere.

Ususally a basic evap system contains a cabon canister, some vacuum lines, a vacuum solenoid, and your gas cap. The carbon canister's job is to store fuel vapors. The vacuum solenoid (usually controlled by a computer nowadays) controls when the fumes stored in the carbon canister are reintroduced to your intake so they can be burnt during combustion. This will take place when your engine is off idle and driving down the road.

ALOT (98%) of evap codes are caused by a gas cap. Either the gas cap being left loose when refueling or a defective cap. There is a one way check valve in the gas cap that allows air into the gas tank but lets nothing escape. You can test the gas cap yourself, take the cap off and suck on the part that faces the tank- you should be able to suck air through it. Now blow on the same end- you should not be able to blow through the cap. I'm willing to bet if you put a new gas cap on the car your evap code will disappear.

The CAT code you are getting could be cause by a defective converter or an oxygen sensor. There is an oxygen sensor located upstream of the converter as well as one downstream of the converter. The job of the downstream oxygen sensor is to monitor catalyst efficiency. If the catalyst in the converter becomes contaminated and doesn't do its job, the rear oxygen sensor will stop switching back and forth over the stoichiometric line and will stick rich or lean. The computer then sees this and turns on the dreaded light. If you have a defective oxygen sensor at the rear of the CAT and it is stuck reading rich or lean, the computer does the same thing and turns on the dreaded light because it can't tell the difference between a bad CAT or the bad sensor. In order to diagnose the CAT light you will need it put on a scanner and checked by a competent mechanic.

A plugged converter is usually accompanied with a loss of power. If you can't get the exhaust out the tail pipe, you can't get the next fuel/air charge into the combusion chamber. Also, keep in mind, if your converter is plugged, something caused it. You could just slap another converter on there and think everything is all good in combustionville but it will most likely end up plugged again unless you adress the underlying condition that plugged the converter in the first place.

Sorry for writing a small novel, but hey, you asked :D

Brad
www.AndersonKnives.ca
 
It's not the gas cap, oxygen sensor is fine, and car has PLENTY of power . . . until I top 90, then it starts to bog down a bit. Car goes from 0-60 plenty quick, but it doesn't want to do 100. Anyone know if there's a chip or a governor on this car? That's the only thing I can figure -- every car I ever owned (including POS) would top 100, and this car should be able to do at least 130.
 
It's not the gas cap, oxygen sensor is fine, and car has PLENTY of power . . . until I top 90, then it starts to bog down a bit. Car goes from 0-60 plenty quick, but it doesn't want to do 100. Anyone know if there's a chip or a governor on this car? That's the only thing I can figure -- every car I ever owned (including POS) would top 100, and this car should be able to do at least 130.

A CAT light doesn't come on for any other reason than a defective CAT or a defective oxygen sensor or their associated circuits. Another possibility would be a defective computer but that would be rare. Do you know for a fact that BOTH oxygen sensors are good? It doesn't make sense to me that a mechanic can hook a scanner to your car and tell you for certain that the oxygen sensors are good but can't tell you whats wrong with the car?

I've been a mechanic for the last 20 years and I can tell you that NO ONE (myself included) can diagnose your car while sitting in their den typing on a computer. You can get educated as well as uneducated guesses on the internet, but that is all they are is guesses. You can go on guesses and throw thousands of dollars in parts at it and in the end you may or may not have fixed the problem. OR you can take it to a competent mechanic and have the problem diagnosed. They have thousands of dollars in specialized diagnostic gear and the knowledge to use them so you don't have to spend thousands or dollars replacing parts that were fine.



For all those that think fixing their car is expensive, I agree. But take this into consideration next time you get your repair bill:

In my own personal toolbox I have over $35,000.00 in tools. That is just my personal hand tools and does not include shop tools like scanners, breakout boxes, presses, etc. NONE of which was tax deductible. Not to mention the tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in tools and test gear that the shop owner or dealer has to buy.

All those fancy toys everyone has to have like dual zone automatic climate control, pedals and steering wheels that automatically adjust to the driver, heated 12 way power seats, rear wheel steering, GPS, power this and power that, all the toys require more and more test gear and knowledge to repair them as well as more and more computers to run them. Your local mechanic isn't just a guy with a wrench and a grease gun any more. He has to be an electrician, electronics wizard, plumber, hvac tech, hydraulics tech, pnumatics tech, and many more, as well as all perform all the regular mechanical tasks.

Brad
www.AndersonKnives.ca
 
This all reminds me of the emissions centre in Vancouver, BC called AirCare. Worked there in '92. It was a PITA working there but got to drive nice cars like Porsche, Ferrari, Rolls Royces, Corvettes, etc on the dyno. Good times.
 
Back
Top