Empty Hand Guntings?

casteel · Apr 24, 2000

I can see where they would be fantastic with a blade, but I can also see where it would be the sort of thing that might not even faze someone if you apply it with empty hands.

Has anyone ever used weaponless destructions against some person committed to doing them harm?

Robert

Dave Fulton · Apr 24, 2000

I assume that by "gunting" you mean limb destructions.

I've used them a couple of times in real fights. In one case, the destruction (from Pentjak) alone stopped the fight and dropped the guy. In the other, it was just the beginning of a combination. It wouldn't have stopped him, but allowed me entrance where I followed up with a few more shots, finally dropping the guy with an elbow to the face.

Other than that, the only experience I have with them is in class settings. I will say however, that my teachers limb destructions are very potent.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton

------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

Donna Barnas · Apr 24, 2000

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Dave Fulton · Apr 25, 2000

Originally posted by Donna Barnas:
Casteel,
Silat incorporates such things as grabbing in such a way you pull a persons skin from their muscle, biting and pinching. Yet there is specific techniche to these which makes them extremely painful.

I dont know how the techniques alone will work against a crazed maniac, for a dude like that I'll opt for a knife.

Our silat places heavy emphasis on the ultimate "limb destruction" ... neck breaks.

You're a brave lady Donna ... for a "crazed maniac", I'd opt for a GUN from as far away as accuracy would allow

Barring that though, I'd opt for a knife

Dave.

Donna Barnas · Apr 24, 2000

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PROTECTOR · Apr 24, 2000

Casteel,
In my system, Lucaylucay Kali/JKD, the gunting is almost always used as the opening move in a series of strikes or an entry to trapping range. We would not do a muscle/nerve strike to the arm and then step back to see if it was effective.

Once a student has the basic technique and targets down, the gunting motion is usually combined into a series of at least 3 striking/deflecting moves.

I have used limb destruction moves several times as an LEO. The effects have ranged from nothing at all to the BG dropping to the ground from the first 2 hits. One gentleman who had to be taken down, put up an extensive fight and was finally cuffed. The next day he told me that he would have 'kicked my @ss!' if I hadn't made his arm go numb 'with that kung-fu stuff'. At the time I didn't think it had much effect, but the BG felt it decided the fight.

Asuang · Apr 25, 2000

Any more posts about the efficacy of bicep/
arm destructions would be appreciated.

Anyone ever used Siko in a fight? This is
another scissors except one blade is your hand and the other blade is your other elbow. You basically parry an oncoming punch into an elbow smash, which is nice because it sets up both of your hands for the outward scissor motion which can consist of eyestabs, et cetera.

Siko's one of those things whose efficiency I just have no doubt of, if it's pulled off correctly, and it doesn't seem ALL that hard... it's one of those things where you're blocking the punch for sure, and you've got the added bonus of exploding their fist if the trick works.

"When everything else fails, just start punching him as hard as you can." -Rick Faye

PROTECTOR · Apr 25, 2000

Asuang,
All of the my 'street gunting' use has been shots to the biceps, forearm or triceps. The tools used were single knuckle punches, 'leopard knuckle' (second set) punches or elbows. One elbow to inside bicep and one elbow to outside tricep, both stopped that arm immediately. Knuckle punches varied in effectiveness and I can't say one worked better than the other.
We train in Siko, but I have never had my hands and arms in the right position to use it on the street. We train by putting boxing gloves on the attacker so you can practice 'popping' the fist with the elbow. If we speed it up to Realtime attack speed the attacker has to wear hockey gloves to keep from getting hurt. At best we feel this about 80% accurate/effective and we practice flowing directly into another move or retreating.