Enco Mill ID and pricing help.

Overmountain

Overmountain

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May 2, 2013
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I have the opportunity to buy an Enco mill (really need a mill) and can't find specs for it. It was reported to be an RF-60. I can find RF-30, 35, 45, etc but no 60. It comes with a lot of tooling for an insanely low price. Just need the specs and maybe a picture. They don't have a pic handy, but before I drive 3 hrs want to know I'm going after the right thing.
Thanks....
 
I not familiar with the RF 60 so take what I say from here with that in mind.
One thing to consider is the tooling! you say it has a good amount of tooling. I easily have 3 times the money in tooling than the mill. just be sure its a square column you don't want round!!
 
You know, I always hear that, and wonder how that adage of it costs "x more in tooling than the mill" keeps being repeated, or if it's true, why would it be for a knifemaker's use of a mill?


You can get a full set of premium collets for $250 or so, and dozens of the requisite sized premium carbide cutters for the same. All that's assuming new and retail prices.


I've got two real knee mills, tons of specialty tool holders, rotary tables, fixtures, vices, parallels, jigs, a full set of premium collets for the R8 mill, a quick change 50 nmtb hub and a couple dozen holders for the 50 taper mill, a full(*FULL*) set of 5C collets, hundreds of cutters in sizes from miniscule to big high end indexables, etc. etc, and I certainly don't have even half the value of the two mill's in said tooling. Admittedly I don't buy anything but cutters (and occasionally collets) new. There's no reason to.



What tooling is it you guy think costs so much, that's necessary for our uses as knifemakers?

I'm pretty into fabrication and general manual machining. I don't need any of the stuff mentioned above other than vise, parallels, collets and cutters (about 3 sizes), and an indicator, to do every operation in traditional knifemaking one needs to on a mill, i.e. slotting guard, squaring shoulders, etc.

Am I missing something?
 
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I guess for someone who only uses it to make knives you could get by with a 3/32 end mill one collet and a clamp, but does anyone do that? You are correct a quality set of collets is 250, plus the end mills, a quality 1/2" carbide end mill cost me around 60 dollars. A quality 8" rotary table wills start around 500 and go up from their. I started out with a vise and a set of collets, but quickly decided to make the mill useful I needed more tools. all of this stuff can be found cheaper but can it be found when you need it to finish a project. This is just my opinion thats why I told the OP the tooling was worth something. I easily have 3 times the money in tooling....I also bought my mill used and 90 % of my tooling. I guess it all depends what you want to with the mill, so I can see you point also.
 
Its from the estate of an ABS smith who turned out some NICE stuff. So I'm sure the tooling is the requisite amount and kind. For the price I think I'm just gonna go for it. I can't find the rf60 anywhere, but the pic looks nice... Looks like a sturdy machine, and I'm sure it has been set up and run correctly...

If anybody knows the RF-60 please chime in. Enco's are copied a lot, so assuming its nice gear...
 
Well, I don't know the particular mill, but I'm fairly certain the RF stands for Rong Fu, so it's either Taiwanese or Chinese. All the Enco, MSC, etc. mills are.

I've got an MSC branded Bridgeport clone, that the previous owner bought new in the 90's. It's decently tight, but it's not half a real bridgeport, and I do all my heavy work on the Kearney & Trecker, which is a *real* mill.

If it's really cheap and you need a mill, go for it. If you have the opportunity to pickup a nice bridgeport or better a Wells, K&T, Cincinati, Van Norman, etc. They're much better machines. Mine gets used for drilling, slotting guards, and light materials work, like face milling handle material or whatever, where setting up on the bigger mill is more time consuming. Anything more serious, the big mill gets used. You won't be facing damascus billets on that machine, or anything like that.


FWIW, the Enco's aren't copied, they're copies, and Enco branded stuff is just that, branded.
 
my HF mini mill is my drill press its R8 tooling and now that i have a bridgeport i have a starter set (on the list to get still are rotory table and sine table then rebuild the head )
i l likely get a better set of collets too
as for mills most knife makers woudl be best served with the HHS sets (2 and 4 flute, ball end and dovetail ) 1/8 -1/2 inch and maybe one 3/4 (i juse 3/32 dremmel tool bits too for milling slots in my kitchen knife handles
 
I lucked into an 8" rotary cross slide (think rotary table on top of an X-Y table) for 50$ from a machinist down the road from me. It's sitting ontop of my drillpress table in this picture, and even came with a jig to get it perfectly centered under the vertical head (or drill press)

DSCN1713.JPG


Good used tooling is out there if you're patient. If the price is right, and the machine is coming with tooling, then it's worth jumping on it. I'm only just now starting to pick up actual machine tools for my shop. I've got a lathe (which isnt actually in my shop yet) and I'll be getting a mill from the fellow who I got the cross slide from, once his new mill (new being WW1 vintage heh) arrives, then we'll move the lathe and his old mill to my shop at the same time =)

Buying tooling can eat up your budget real fast, which is why it's important to learn to use the machines properly so as to not eat up your tooling or break anything that's supposed to be precision. I'm just starting to read up on how to use vertical and horizontal mills without destroying things right now =P
 
Its $750 for the mill which is quite large... larger than I need at the moment and has a rack of tooling with it. Can't see how many collets and bits exactly.
I read 'Enco copy' as copied enco. My mistake... I guess if was really an 'enco copy of' thanks for that.
I do all my work with my big floor press and files etc for now. But a mill would certainly simplify some things... Was looking at the Harbor Freight mini mill, but this seems like a better deal.
I may just save up and see if I can grow into needing a better mill?

Thanks for the advice... I'm posting during grinding breaks, and working a guard at the moment and wishing I had a mill... lol.
 
yes a much better deal for the bigger mill and tooling even if a hair out of spec its going to have more mass and handle bigger work liek squaring up guards and the like

in evey hidentang i make i true up al blocks (wood and metal) so that its a snap to put together and have little to no gap between pieces
 
That sounds like a fair deal if it's a real knee mill, and not a "mill drill" on a stand. Enco made some shortie bridgeport style clones, short, real kneemills.

If it's not ragged out (don't assume that just because a good knifemaker had it, it's good, some of the best knifemakers I know are making insanely good stuff on ragged out crap equipment, no offense guys.), you should easily be able to get your money back out of it.

That's why I bought the MSC mill I've got. It's not half the machine of a good american mill, but for the price, and with a good DRO already on it, I knew I'd double my money when I got rid of it, and I had need of a new "drill".
 
I am gonna pocket enough cash and drive the F-250 up to Ohio I believe... I will check play and whatnot best I can. I am truing up everything with a dead flat steel plate and sandpaper ATM. I square stuff by measurement with the mic's best I can, but dang a mill would help. Thanks again for the input guys...
 
If the machine is of the same or better general construction than an RF-45 (which I would like to assume being an RF-60), then $750 is a superb price, pretty much a steal. I was thrilled to pay about that much for my G0463 with tooling, which is literally half the mill the RF-45 is. I would be all over this if it was in my area and I had found the deal, and I already have a mill.
 
Well, turned out to be a mis-ID. Turned out to be a RF-30. For $750 I think the money is a bit too high. I have seen them go for $500~... I think I will save up and see what I can get that will suite me for the long haul.

Thanks again for everyone's help. It will continue to help me with my shopping for a mill now.
 
I've used alot of different manual vertical knee mills in the past and the ENCO's where by far the worst, they're of typical chi-comm quality in my opinion. Save your money and get a used bridgeport or even better a sharp.
 
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