End of the line for anglers

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
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Recently, the Royal Society of London has proven conclusively that fish do feel pain, especially when they are hooked by anglers.

The two-year study by the Roslin Institute and Edinburgh University has caused more than a stir among animal lovers and those who like fishing.

This scientific discovery has triggered a frightening thought: what if vegetables too feel pain. We will run of things to eat!

Oh dear, fish feel pain, maybe vegetables, too. We know to some extent that plants respond to love and kindness. What's next?

Personally, I think surviving on air alone is quite inadequate for most people.

You guys got any suggestions as to how the food chain goes? :D
 
Yes golok, you've taken this argument to its logical conclusion. Soon we'll be hearing about the plants screaming and tofu feeling pain and then what? Personally, I've had about enough of these yo-yos who would have you believe that they eat nothing that casts a shadow.

I say ignore them and they will go away or starve to death. I could care less which really.
 
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Originally posted by golok
You guys got any suggestions as to how the food chain goes?
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It goes that the quickest, strongest, more ferocious, and better armed with teeth get to eat the slower, weaker, more timid, and more defenseless. ;) :eek:

BTW, that's also the basis for the corporate world, as well as the other social structures of humans. Whether we like the fact or not, competition for resources and the power of reproductive perogative rules this planet.
 
Originally posted by RokJok
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Originally posted by golok
You guys got any suggestions as to how the food chain goes?
------------------

It goes that the quickest, strongest, more ferocious, and better armed with teeth get to eat the slower, weaker, more timid, and more defenseless. ;) :eek:

BTW, that's also the basis for the corporate world, as well as the other social structures of humans. Whether we like the fact or not, competition for resources and the power of reproductive perogative rules this planet.
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From a scientific standpoint I only agree partly. The major selective force behind evolution os not agressiveness, but fitness for one's environment. The timid will (and have) overcome the brave when better suited to the environment. Ovten times being better suited means being more agressive and competitive, but not always. Often times being cooperative with peers makes the difference, hence the success of herding and packing animals.

I only bring it up because I frequently hear the "red in tooth and claw" evolutionary reference used as an excuse to stab someone in the back. It is a modern propagation of a mistaken interpretation of Darwin's original work. The reality is that back-stabbers are largely weeded out in the long run.

But to the point about fishes, I don't mean to be classist, but fish ARE of class Osteicthyes, and I am of class Mammalia. Do I care too much that something that I enjoy eating is hurt by my hook? Not particularly. Sorry - color me insensitive.

Scott
 
Did we really need a study to realise that sharp pointy things cause pain when they pierce flesh? Ahhh babys starve and teachers/cops/firemen get laid off but we have proven that fish feel:rolleyes: Anyone who has ever hunted or caught a fish should realise living creatures experiance pain. Don't get me wrong I am not complaining about these activieties. Just bothers me that a lot of money and time is spent on the obvious. Hunters(myself included) have always tried for a clean kill to ease the experiance for the hunted. I wonder what the PETA folks are gonna start with this "scientific" info. It has always amazed me that people feel guilty for living and being predators by nature. Everything alive lives off something else that lived. OK rant over :)
 
I think that Somewhere between eating only fruit which has already fallen from the tree, and murdering your grandma and consuming her because you think she might taste good with ketchup there has to be a happy (and healthy) medium.

Everyone needs to determine their own level of comfort in the greater scheme of things. I've been the guy that only ate hamburgers and beat up the weenie vegetarian kids in high school, but later in college, I BECAME one of the weenie vegetarian kids! Now I live somewhere in the middle.

If you guys are REALLY interested in this stuff read THE SELFISH GENE by Richard Dawkins, it discusses a lot of these topics.

Thanks for listening,

-John
 
I have always thought it ridiculous to argue that fishing isn't painful. I have also thought it ridiculous to care. What are we supposed to do, shoot them out of the water?

Ever see how a grizzly eats a salmon? He doesn't administer a "coup de grace" on a rock like a fisherman, he holds it down with a paw, bites, and skins the poor fish ALIVE. Now THAT's cruel. I'll take the hook ANY day!

Frickin' grizzlies, kill all the insensitive bears! Every last one! That ought to teach 'em! :rolleyes: ;)
 
Why yes Ma'am, I guess the fish do feel pain.
BTW, those sure are pretty earrings.
;)
 
I'm sure fish do feel pain. Thank God they can't holler about it and screw up a quiet, relaxing day fishing on the lake, eh? :D Actually, there is a good way to ease the pain your catch feels - a truncheon to its head and then a nap in the ice bin.
 
Originally posted by swede79
I have always thought it ridiculous to argue that fishing isn't painful. I have also thought it ridiculous to care. What are we supposed to do, shoot them out of the water?


I think this makes the case for a new Fish Gun. Maybe something in a .22 or a .17 with 4x32 Periscope:D
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The fact that they don't feel pain was an argument most frequently used by catch and release sport fisherman. As for what bears and other animals do, this line of reasoning would also allow someone to rob you by force, take a woman by force, eat your children in meager times etc. - probably not positions you would want to support.

-Cliff
 
I saw a bumper sticker that sums up my feelings exactly. "I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables!"
 
None of US clawed our way to the top of anything. You could make a case for our predecesors, maybe, but not any of us as individuals. Also, not to nit-pick, but if any of us had claws there probably wouldn't be a bladeforums, would there? It is our marked lack of claws (and other natural advantages) which made tools desirable to us (as a species).

I'm not trying to pick a fight at all, just making some points which I think get neglected too often.

Thanks,

-John
 
Originally posted by Danbo
I saw a bumper sticker that sums up my feelings exactly. "I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables!"
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Sorry Danbo, but this was (and is) an *extremely* stupid comment.
Animals (predators in special) are slaves to their instincts - they become hungry, so they move out and kill - they are full, so they lie around in the sun.

I prefer to be a tiny bit higher in the food chain and try not to become a slave to my lower instincts. Of course humans have the right to eat something, too - but there's no intelligent reason to eat sensing beings or even beings with a consciousness, at least not for people like us who live in an industrialized country. If you want to be the 'smartest lifeform' on this planet, you have to prove that by the way you act - and killing other beings for no good reason just proves you are an animal like all the others.

And I'm not even starting to talk about the economical or health benefits of vegetarism.

-Connor
 
I prefer to be a tiny bit higher in the food chain and try not to become a slave to my lower instincts
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Thats a strong stance to take. Im proud of you. Very cool.Very civilized. Why just a tiny bit higher though???

there's no intelligent reason to eat sensing beings or even beings with a consciousness, at least not for people like us who live in an industrialized country
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Thats sure some "cool" and "hip" progressive thought but what does it mean????
 
Originally posted by L. Uebelein
Thats sure some "cool" and "hip" progressive thought but what does it mean????
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It means exactly what I said: There is no intelligent reason that would morally justify killing and eating sensing beings just to feed ourselves. If you know such a cool&hip reason enlighten us, please.

The situation is different in "3rd world" countries where meat is often the number one source for proteins, but this argument doesn't apply to the US or Europe and other "industrialized" countries.

-Connor
 
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