Engraving/Fancy Handle materials....

[Kohai999]

Do you guys think that engraving and/or fancy handle materials are a justified expense on a mediocre or uninspired knife design?

I don't, actually find knives used as an engraving showcase to be abhorrent, and it most gets me when very new makers do it, trying to leapfrog the paying of the dues.

One of the reasons that I have always loved the work of Larry Fuegen, is that in addition to sole authorship, the base knife designs are always useful(some of the Goblin Folders being an exception) and the knives look great with no embellishment, but what Larry does to them puts them over the top(in a good way).

Thought this would be a good subject to discuss since Blade is coming up in a week, and it is always important to keep basic knife design and appreciation at the forefront of the ways to consider knives.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[petah]

there is nothing more hideous than a over adorned poorly designed knife.

 

[betzner]

Do you guys think that engraving and/or fancy handle materials are a justified expense on a mediocre or uninspired knife design?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

As you know, most of my knives are embellished in some manner. But I hope I've seen beneath the engraving/embellishment and into the piece sufficiently that the additional adornment is meaningful, as opposed to just "additional". Otherwise, why bother.

Best,

Bob

EDIT: I would add this - sometimes (usually because of a design feature), a very high quality knife will shout "engrave me" and sometimes it will shout "don't engrave me, whatever you do". At this point, the "shouting" has to do with the purity of the knife and it's design. I know we are talking about whether to embellish something mediocre or not, but thought I would just throw that in, as an added point.

 

[bluejaunte]

I agree 100%. Frankly, I feel the same goes for filework, jeweling, etc. The only knives I have with any engraving would have stood on their own merits before the engraving was done.

The problem with this kind of thread, though, is that it would be somewhat tactless to point to specific examples of knives that DON'T.

 

[Kohai999]

As you know, most of my knives are embellished in some manner. But I hope I've seen beneath the engraving/embellishment and into the piece sufficiently that the additional adornment is meaningful, as opposed to just "additional". Otherwise, why bother.
Best,

Bob

Bob,

I'd like to think that most afficianados can see the beauty of Buster's work in the design itself, with no embellishment.

As far as Curt's work....some of it totally speaks to me, some might be "less" appealing to me if it was unadorned....this is where individual taste preferences come into play, and I have said as much to Curt, face-to-face.

The problem with this kind of thread, though, is that it would be somewhat tactless to point to specific examples of knives that DON'T.

As well as anyone, I CAN do tactless, but in deference to delicate sensibilities, will opt not to. People will have use their imaginations, but it is still a very valid subject so close to Blade.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[betzner]

STeven, I think I was typing my "EDIT" when you were replying. I actually think we are on the same page.

Bob

 

[Kohai999]

STeven, I think I was typing my "EDIT" when you were replying. I actually think we are on the same page.

Bob

I think so too, but it is great that you are opining, because you are one of the collectors that I know who has a great deal of pieces done in this style....IF they were bad knife designs, but they are not.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[betzner]

STeven, an example of two knives I have, Bruce Bump's and Steve Likarich's New York Specials, would NEVER be considered for engraving (not much area anyway, lol). Purity is the operative word with these two knives, no matter the handle material. Just significantly outstanding design.

Bob

 

[Kohai999]

STeven, an example of two knives I have, Bruce Bump's and Steve Likarich's New York Specials, would NEVER be considered for engraving (not much area anyway, lol). Purity is the operative word with these two knives, no matter the handle material. Just significantly outstanding design.

Bob

As a small aside, Loveless told me that he was not fond of engraving(an understatement) on his knives, or designs.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[betzner]

As a small aside, Loveless told me that he was not fond of engraving(an understatement) on his knives, or designs.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I can't imagine owning a Loveless that I would ever let ANY engraver touch. My own personal opinion. They are perfect.

Bob

 

[Jon Brand]

To me, Loveless knives look a little funny with engraving. They look to be built for use. These serious looking knives look slightly out of place with gold and silver lines running in the guard.

 

[Lorien]

there's something really very sad about a well designed and beautifully made knife with crappy engraving on it.

Almost as sad as a crappily designed and made knife with really good engraving on it.

With all that said, there are some engravers whose work is so good that it stands alone regardless of the knife it's on. Fortunately, those engravers ARE so good, that they can, and probably do, pick and choose the knives they'll adorn with their engraving.

It would be interesting to see a knife with great engraving but without good design or build quality. Most of what I've seen doesn't really fall into that category. Usually I've noticed that the level of quality all around is- well, level.

The phenomenon of using exotic materials, (beyond one's skill level in fully realizing the value of said material), with the hopes that the materials alone will bring the knife to the 'next level' is easy to see almost anywhere you look. It is kind of sneaky. There's that payin yer dues thing.

Personally, I prefer to use cheap or free materials to build things like sheaths, (which I really enjoy putting together). I am simply not good enough yet to trust that choosing high end materials would help my work! I'd like to get to a point where my skills are pretty good, and after that, my eye for design.

There's no short cut. You gotta learn to crawl before you learn to walk.

 

[bluejaunte]

To me, Loveless knives look a little funny with engraving. They look to be built for use. These serious looking knives look slightly out of place with gold and silver lines running in the guard.

:thumbup: This is why I cringe somewhat when I see "tactical" style knives that have been embellished in some way. One of the few exceptions to this (in my opinion) is Scott Sawby's Combat/Utility folder. For a "tactical" knife it's pretty darned elegant. IMHO.

STeven, I wonder if you had a recent email exchange in mind when you started this thread?

 

[RogerP]

Lipstick on a pig is never a good thing.

The majority of my knives aren't engraved, but the ones that are I feel benefit from the treatment.

I don't see engraving as detracting from functionality. For example, Dan Farr's knives are, without exception, highly functional tools. Yet the majority of them now feature a small amount of tasteful engraving on the guard and pins. I dressed out a deer with Dan's personal hunter last year - engraving and fancy stag handle and all - and nothing about handle material or embellishment dimished its ability to do its job supremely well. That pretty little knife cut like a laser, didn't mind getting bloddy in the least and rinsed off with water and a mild degreasing soap to look essentially new.

Clearly some knives, when the total design / materials / embellishments package is considered, aren't meant for hard use. I don't see this as a bad thing - so long as the knife is CAPABLE of being used for its intended purpose. Remember Burt Foster's amazing camp knife WIP a little while back? Multibar damascus and ivory scales? On a camp knife? Certain chest-thumping self-proclaimed knife "purists" would scoff at the very idea - yet the thread ended with pics of the happy owner wailing away with the thing.

As long as functionality is retained, I can appreciate admire and respect even the most highly embellished piece. Edged art that stops short of being an actual knife, however, doesn't interest me much.

Good discussion point, STeven.

Roger

 

[2knife]

.......

 

[2knife]

.....

 

[RogerP]

Oops, missed Roger's post.. I guess that rebuffs the arguement i was making.
So, Damascus will be fine, wail away. I just don't care for it much.

Nothing wrong with not caring for damascus. We all have our personal preferences. The problem can come with confusing our personal preferences with rules of general application. ie. " I don't care for damascus, therefore damascus is junk and a waste of time and anyone who bothers with it is beneath my consideration."

I'm not laying that last bit at your feet - just an illustration by way of example. My most-used using knife has a damascus blade.

Roger

 

[brownshoe]

Do you guys think that engraving and/or fancy handle materials are a justified expense on a mediocre or uninspired knife design?

Of course not. Nobody would. It's first a knife, then a canvas for engraving, not the other way around.

Using embellishment, whether fancy materials, filework, engraving, hamon lines, to demand a higher price for a poorly designed and even poorly made knife is common. It only fools the ignorant.

As an aside, beware that anytime someone mentions "the paying of the dues" they are usually denigrating someone's work because it is good, the maker is new, and established makers (or collectors) are jealous of the quality and the price.

An object stands on its own, it is what it is...irrespective of the experience of the maker. I've seen poor pieces from people that have paid many dues; sometimes knifemakers let go of the quality when they near the end of their careers.

 

[RogerP]

Frankly, I wouldn't have much interest in a "poorly made, poorly designed, mediocre and uninspired" knife regardless of the presence or absence of fancy matrials and embellishment.

Roger

 

[betzner]

Frankly, I wouldn't have much interest in a "poorly made, poorly designed, mediocre and uninspired" knife regardless of the presence or absence of fancy matrials and embellishment.

Roger

I've been told they only fool the ignorant. Sure glad I found out before it was too late.

Bob