engraving kani on a blade???

[ryan9977]

hey guys....i had a question.....i attached a pic of what i am talking about.....at what point do you engrave kanji like this on a blade?.....is it before /after heat treating.....i would assume after because if u grind over it it would wipe it out.....no?.....any help would be appreciated.....also what kind of tools would be easiest to accomplish this?.....any ideas.....thanks alot.....ryan

 

[C-9]

After, they take a tool like a small cold work chisel and a small hammer. They then continuously tap the chisel until they get the stroke they want. Most knife shops in Japan allow for personalization in this way.

 

[richdkao]

hey guys....i had a question.....i attached a pic of what i am talking about.....at what point do you engrave kanji like this on a blade?.....is it before /after heat treating.....i would assume after because if u grind over it it would wipe it out.....no?.....any help would be appreciated.....also what kind of tools would be easiest to accomplish this?.....any ideas.....thanks alot.....ryan

sorry to correct your error
the figure on the blade was not a kanji
kanji in Japanese language means chinese character
and this one is Japanese "katakana"

 

[ryan9977]

thanks and sorry bout the error....ryan

 

[polish avenger]

Rich, I think that 99.9% of knife enthusiasts in the western world will never use the word katakana, no matter how much we are told that one engraving is of kanji and another is not. It's pretty much impossible for us to tell the difference, unless we study the characters.
-Mark

 

[Bruce Bump]

sorry to correct your error
the figure on the blade was not a kanji
kanji in Japanese language means chinese character
and this one is Japanese "katakana"

Could you tell how you know that? Tell us a little about yourself.

 

[Carcara]

The distinct angular writing style gives it away as Katakana. A phonetic system of writing invented by Buddhist monks in Japan.
Katakana is used to phoneticsize foreign non Japanese words. The knife is inscribed Ka No Ben Ta No.

 

[Leu Custom]

I believe Kanji is chinese characters (Which are also found in Japanese writing). Katakana is the characters found on that knife blade and hiragana are japanese characters that appear to be more loopy or not as hard angled when written (if that makes any sense)

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Nothing about Japanese knives makes any sense to me.
Why call a pin a "toyo-ta" when it's a pin?

 

[C-9]

The distinct angular writing style gives it away as Katakana. A phonetic system of writing invented by Buddhist monks in Japan.
Katakana is used to phoneticsize foreign non Japanese words. The knife is inscribed Ka No Ben Ta No.

It looks like it says Carpenter to me.

 

[Atlas Knife Company]

Oddly, no one has answered the question yet. Whether it is a Han, Kanji, Hanja, or other language wasn't the point. I would think that the initial strokes were performed pre-ht, and maybe re-defined lightly post-ht. From my understanding there shouldn't be much grinding post-ht, just some light hand sanding/blasting.

Also, wouldn't it be romaji or kanamoji instead of katakana? It's so long since college. . .

 

[polish avenger]

The blade in the picture provided in the first post is of laminated construction, with the engraved outer layer(s) being much softer than the center cutting-edge steel.
Here's a link to Sinichi Watanabe's engraving page. http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/engraving.htm
At the bottom of the page he addresses the issue.
-Mark

 

[ryan9977]

Oddly, no one has answered the question yet. Whether it is a Han, Kanji, Hanja, or other language wasn't the point. I would think that the initial strokes were performed pre-ht, and maybe re-defined lightly post-ht. From my understanding there shouldn't be much grinding post-ht, just some light hand sanding/blasting.

Also, wouldn't it be romaji or kanamoji instead of katakana? It's so long since college. . .

this is what i was wondering....and i reaslize it wouldbe different on many japanese knives because alot of times there is a softer outside layer....but what about say a regular knife...no cladding out of say 1095?....ryan

 

[C-9]

Oddly, no one has answered the question yet. Whether it is a Han, Kanji, Hanja, or other language wasn't the point. I would think that the initial strokes were performed pre-ht, and maybe re-defined lightly post-ht. From my understanding there shouldn't be much grinding post-ht, just some light hand sanding/blasting.

Also, wouldn't it be romaji or kanamoji instead of katakana? It's so long since college. . .

Its a tool like a cold work chisel and is done after HT, like I said in the first reply. Its pretty clear that the name is likely the owner's, and not the maker's so it is almost certain that it was done post HT. These is also a fair amount of grinding post heat treat to avoid warping on thin knives, and most high end Japanese chef knives are thin. A large stone water cooled wheel is standard equipment in a knife making shop in Japan which helps them from not messing with the temper. Kana is the term that includes both hiragana and katakana, and romaji is the romanization.

this is what i was wondering....and i reaslize it wouldbe different on many japanese knives because alot of times there is a softer outside layer....but what about say a regular knife...no cladding out of say 1095?....ryan

Those are usually stamped before heat treat or etched.

 

[Atlas Knife Company]

Very nice knives. If ever I'm on Iron Chef America making grilled cheese sammiches, I know where to get the knife for it.

The engraving techniques we use are a unique traditional Japanese technique. This is available only on our laminated blades, such as our kitchen knives, because they have a soft wrought-iron layer. Western knives, solid stainless knives and solid carbon steel knives are not able to have any extra engravings due to the hardness of the metal. Please enjoy our fine traditional Japanese craftsmanship! You will love showing off your hand-engraved knife at every chance you get!

Evidently post-HT, although you can't just do it to any metal. If prepped properly, I would think you could do it pre-HT. Maybe touch it up with the diamond wheel dremel post-ht.

 

[Carcara]

C-9, Thanks, Carpenter makes alot of sense now.

If you harden your blade with clay then you can still engrave with a chisel
the unhardened portion.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Standard "V" or lozenge gravers could be used, either pushed by hand, or hammer driven.
The Japanese probably have a whole set of words to describe the tools. "Use wasabi to mark nissan sake with mitsubishi."

 

[Lucky Bob]

Bill, you're generally pretty knowledgeable, but what's with the bug in your bonnet about Japanese? If you hadn't noticed, it's a SEPARATE LANGUAGE, of course it has its own vocabulary.

 

[Atlas Knife Company]

But here's the question: Why couldn't you engrave other steels with it prior to HT?

 

[polish avenger]

Bill, you're generally pretty knowledgeable, but what's with the bug in your bonnet about Japanese? If you hadn't noticed, it's a SEPARATE LANGUAGE, of course it has its own vocabulary.

I think Bill was just having a little fun here, Bob. I'm reasonably certain he has no beef with the Japanese and that no offense was meant.
-Mark