Enough to try some forging

B

BradleySmall

Joined
Mar 6, 2022
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So I thought I would just stick with stock removal but "Der Mensch Tracht, un Gott Lacht" :) :D

I got some good deals on 5160 but of course it is 2" x 0.250" and it seems silly to simply waste that down to finished thickness.

I'd like to use it to make some wood carving tools. Nothing over 3.5" blade (plus tang). Perhaps some slöjd knives, spoon knives, crook knives, hook knives, bent knives. All small blades though some will need a bend or full semi-circle.

Anyway, all I currently have to work with is a one brick forge, and a chunk of railroad track.

Is that enough to be able to move enough metal to get 1/4" down to 1/8 or even 3/32?

If not how much more is absolutely required?

I am overall very content doing stock removal. But I guess I want to just be able to occasionally move some thicker metal when acquiring it was such a good deal :) Occasionally being the key word.
 
BradleySmall said:
I just wasn't sure if the single brick was the weak point or the rail-track.
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This will depend on how sturdy your rail track stand is. If it is secured (ie, bolted down, not just strapped to) to a 6ft post buried 3+ ft in the ground, then this will only become the weak point in your system when you need to forge things larger than the rail width.
 
weo said:
This will depend on how sturdy your rail track stand is. If it is really secured so that it doesn't move no matter how hard you whack on it (ie, bolted down, not just strapped to to a 6ft post buried 3+ ft in the ground), then this will only become the weak point in your system when you need to forge things larger than the rail width.
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You restriction of "absolutely required" to forge is a killer since each individual has to find what's their individual abilities and requirements are. There are no absolutes in forging
 
velegski said:
You restriction of "absolutely required" to forge is a killer since each individual has to find what's their individual abilities and requirements are. There are no absolutes in forging
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"Absolutely necessary" is assuming only limited occasional usage, and only for things such as 1/4" stock that doesn't make sense to grind away to make 1/8 or 3/32 thick blades. And, only for 3" and smaller blades.

I understand there are different requirements as different goals change. Normally I am quite content to buy 1/8" or 3/32" flat stock and cut it out and then bevel it. This just happens to be a situation where while wheeling and dealing someone gave me 1/4" stock as part of another deal and now I have it to use, but don't feel right simply treating it as though it were half of what it is. If I find out that I love the smithing process, perhaps I will invest in a decent forge and e
weo said:
This will depend on how sturdy your rail track stand is. If it is secured (ie, bolted down, not just strapped to) to a 6ft post buried 3+ ft in the ground, then this will only become the weak point in your system when you need to forge things larger than the
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ven an anvil. But if it is not necessary, at this point in time, I'd prefer to spend my money in other ways. :)
weo said:
This will depend on how sturdy your rail track stand is. If it is secured (ie, bolted down, not just strapped to) to a 6ft post buried 3+ ft in the ground, then this will only become the weak point in your system when you need to forge things larger than the rail width.
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So what is the second best option since it won't be outside and therefore not able to be driven 3 feet below surface?
 
I made my first knife on the little anvil section on the back of a large vise and a ball peen hammer. I moved on to a piece of RR track spiked down on a stump and a 3# blacksmith hammer. I made swords on that thing.... at age 12. I didn't have a real anvil for a long time.
Put as much mass as you can under the RR track. Glue up a stack 6X6 timbers and screw/spike the track to the top one. Or, get a big section of a tree trunk from a landscape company and use it as an anvil base. That works great. About 30" long should be right.

A 50# Harbor Freight anvil will work for not much money. A machinist hammer from HF will also work.
You can build a larger forge later. If I get a chance I'll see if I have a spare forge sitting around that I can give you.

I do recommend getting thinner stock for now and saving the thick stuff for later on.
 
BradleySmall said:
So what is the second best option since it won't be outside and therefore not able to be driven 3 feet below surface?
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Whatever will be solid/heavy enough so that all the energy of your hammer blows go into deforming your hot steel, and none of it going to moving the anvil around (or deforming the anvil).

I apologize for not being clearer, but I was just trying to verbalize that if on a post buried in the ground, it doesn't matter what size your anvil is. Being solidly anchored to the ground (like in the above-mentioned post), then you basically turned the whole planet into your anvil.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I made my first knife on the little anvil section on the back of a large vise and a ball peen hammer. I moved on to a piece of RR track spiked down on a stump and a 3# blacksmith hammer. I made swords on that thing.... at age 12. I didn't have a real anvil for a long time.
Put as much mass as you can under the RR track. Glue up a stack 6X6 timbers and screw/spike the track to the top one. Or, get a big section of a tree trunk from a landscape company and use it as an anvil base. That works great. About 30" long should be right.
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I have some rounds and will collect more as I have been doing some green woodworking so I use the things for axing blocks. I can certainly lay hands on another for an "anvil" stand.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
A 50# Harbor Freight anvil will work for not much money. A machinist hammer from HF will also work.
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I have considering either the HF doyle or the vevor, but if what I have is good enough, I would prefer to make do. Especially if a free chunk of tree and some lag bolts and washers is all it takes..
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
You can build a larger forge later. If I get a chance I'll see if I have a spare forge sitting around that I can give you.
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Wow! That is quite generous!! Let me know for sure!!

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I do recommend getting thinner stock for now and saving the thick stuff for later on.
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Normally I buy my stock so that I can simply do stock removal. This just happened to be a good opportunity on top of another deal (Kind of like gravy...) and now I am just trying to get the value out of it. If that makes any sense.
 
weo said:
Whatever will be solid/heavy enough so that all the energy of your hammer blows go into deforming your hot steel, and none of it going to moving the anvil around (or deforming the anvil).

I apologize for not being clearer, but I was just trying to verbalize that if on a post buried in the ground, it doesn't matter what size your anvil is. Being solidly anchored to the ground (like in the above-mentioned post), then you basically turned the whole planet into your anvil.
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I get it now! I will be inside a shed. I was considering using a hardwood round, or even my current axing block, But free wood being plentiful, when it is ... opportunity may present itself. I also considered something big that I could fill with sand or other weighty material.
 
Some folks build a plywood box and fill it with a couple hundred pounds of cement. If you put lag bolts in the cement when wet you can bolt the anvil down.
 
BradleySmall said:
I get it now! I will be inside a shed. I was considering using a hardwood round, or even my current axing block, But free wood being plentiful, when it is ... opportunity may present itself. I also considered something big that I could fill with sand or other weighty material.
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I built a stand that is basically a box filled with over 100 lbs of sand. It's made out of 2x4s with 3/4 inch plywood as a base. The 2x4's are cut so they overlap on each run. The glue between the layers is enough to keep the sand inside the stand. Overall it works very well. I've added a rack to one side for hammers, need to add something to hold tongs.
 
Sand adds weight but dissipates energy, which is why concrete is a better choice. Taking the metal anvil out of the equation, would you rather hammer sand or concrete?

Another choice is a stack of solid concrete building blocks. Build a fitted plywood box and stack them inside. Make a top of 2" lumber and screw the anvil on it.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Sand adds weight but dissipates energy, which is why concrete is a better choice. Taking the metal anvil out of the equation, would you rather hammer sand or concrete?

Another choice is a stack of solid concrete building blocks. Build a fitted plywood box and stack them inside. Make a top of 2" lumber and screw the anvil on it.
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won't they just become sand after banging on them for a while?
 
You are banging on the steel RR track or small anvil.
The top of the concrete block stack is 2" thick wood. The force gets dissipated across the blocks. These are solid concrete blocks, not cinderblocks.

All in all, the simplest is a plywood box poured full of concrete and a 2" thick wooden top plate or a sheet of 1/2" or thicker steel.
 
My first anvil stand was a ~1’x1’x 3’ section of a barn beam laid flat on a small mound of dirt. Used that until me and my dad had the idea of stacking two more barn beams on top of the first one. Now those 3 barn beams and some more barn wood were transformed into an anvil stand my dad designed for me.

First forge was a old double sink filled with some bricks and mounted on scrap wood. Used that until I didn’t want to drive an hour and half into NY state to buy pea coal anymore.

My first two hammers were some cheap hammers from HF. My mom felt bad I was “using a regular old hammer” when I clearly needed “some of the bigger hammers from the movies”. She picked up a 2lb hammer and a 3lb cross peen hammer on her way home from work one day. I have lots of hammers now and those two still see the most use.

The stuff you start with will last you as long as you need them to and then some.
 
well, here comes the weekend. Let's see how much heat I can get out of my 1 brick, and I will start by setting my track on my axe-block
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Thanks for reminding me. I worked grading the lot on the side of the new shop and putting in a sprinkler system the last several days. I'll write a note and check tomorrow.
 
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