Epoxy Update

Michael J. Spangler

Michael J. Spangler

Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
2,181
arrrrrrrggggg. so after new epoxy (devcon 2 ton), scratching it up with 36 grit, warm house for curing it in, extremely clean materials, good tight fit, spring clamps for consistent pressure, proper mixing and measuring of epoxy and hardener, 24 hour curing time, the damn thing still came off the tang when i ground it, i don't understand. i figure one varable could be the natural handle material (stag) so its time to try some micarta, god i hate waiting to deal with this stuff.... each time i try to narrow it down it takes a whole day to see some result, or lack there of. any other suggestions guys? i'm running short on time and patience. i need to have some knives with handles before the march NCCA show :mad: :( :mad: :( :grumpy: seems this time when i yanked off the handle it adhered quite well to the handle material but not to the tang. arrggggg please help. thanks in dvance guys!! :p
 
Michael,

I never had any luck with Devcon either. I switched to Conap to solve my
problems. You can get it from a number of knife supply houses. I get mine
from Sheffield's. I recently got some Acraglass that I want to give a try.
I know Devcon is easy to get and some people swear by it, but if I have to
work that hard to just to get the stuff to stick, forget it.

Paul
 
you know Mike after all that trouble...it might be time for screwing that puppy together! what size pin holes did you drill?
 
Brownell's Acraglas. Next time drill some 1/4 inch feedthrough holes in the tang, scare up the backside of handle scales. The scales will effectively be bonded to each other. Still use Acraglas.

RL
 
yeah i'll try another epoxy but i don't think that the problem, who knows i'll try anyway. 1/8" holes in the tang for pins. good idea roger that will hold it. yeah i'll try the acraglass next if this time it doesn't work. yeah maybe it is time to screw these handles on. well more stuff to order i guess...... we'll see when i hog into this handle and see how it holds.
the belt couldn't be lifting it off could it?
 
I've used a lot of Devcon without a problem. The only time I've had problems with scales pulling up, is when I get them (or the tang) too warm while shaping. How warm is it getting when you're shaping it?

Jamie
 
not warm at all..... i'm in a below 30 degree shop whch tens to keep things cool but other than that i'm stopping very often allowing to cool before i go again, and i'm not getting it hot. just a little warm to the touch but no where near temps hot enough to ruin it. i'm doing all the same stuff i've always done and i've always had great result with other knives. for some reason thigns just don't add up right now.
 
Kinda had the same problem when gluing spacers to a ElkHorn Handle.
Seems the vibration from the grinding belt took it off.
Try changing the direction you are grinding.Grind so you are pushing the slabs to the tang instead of pulling off.
??never know
TJ
 
Michael, are you grinding the scales before the pins are in place? Pins - even epoxy pins - go a long way toward preventing shear stress. I glue on one scale, let it cure - drill through the tang holes - line up and glue the second scale - another 24 hour cure - drill the pin holes all the way through and glue in the pins - another 24 hour cure - and THEN I start shaping the handle. I sure don't envy you this problem. Hope the group can help.
 
Michael, I've had the Devcon 5 min epoxy fail several times, It will not take any heat at all. The failures always happened when I was grinding on the handle material or guard.
I didn't think it was getting that hot but sure enough it was enough to cause the 5 min epoxy to fail.

The 5 min stuff is just about like using super glue when it comes to not being able to tolerate any heat. If you want a good bond then try something else besides the 5 min stuff. Ron
 
I've finally learned to buy the Brownell's in bulk. You get a bunch more for the buck. I use the Original and I think Ol'Hickory likes the gel. You can set metal bolsters the same way. I dove tail the bolsters from the rear side with a small dove tail cutter. Have a couple feed through holes in the tang so that the bonding agent connects the two bolsters together. I also aggragate the bonding agent with atomized steel for strength. With the epoxy within the dove tailed bolsters and effectively connected to each other via the feed through holes they ain't going anywhere. A small pin through the bolsters keeps them from swiveling. For scales I often use a 1/4 roughing mill and mill about 50 to 60 thousanths deep into the scales. The roughing mill leaves flutes in the sides of the cut. Perfect for the bonding material to embed into. Again, the feed through holes allow the scales to lock to each other. Here I also aggragate the epoxy with atomized steel for added strength.

RL
 
i make sure that the epoxy has had 24 hours to cure adn the pics are in place, i've had the slow cure stuff fail on me today. I think the only possible problem i can think of is the belt pulling downward is actually pulling the scale off the tang but is this possible with all the precautions i took? i've done my other knifes the same way as these and had no problem. thanks for the suggestions. Roger that sounds like a lenghty process but well worth it. tomorrow i think i'll be ordering handle screws and acraglass ;) god i hope this works
 
I just drill oneside, drill back through the otheside glue pin and clamp. Never had any problems, weather and temp do weird stuff so I make sure to give it plenty of time. I switched to acraglass and will never go back. I also went to a slow 36 grit belt for the most of my shaping. Lots less heat but you can screw up really badly really fast.
 
For what it's worth I am going to Loveless bolts for some of my knife patterns. Yes Michael it does add time to the process and the extra drilling is a grind. That is another reason I am switching to Loveless bolts for certain knives.

RL
 
GrassHoppa; That is the scapel knife that you are having problems with??? The handle is under 1/2" wide and you are using the KMG to sand the slabs down?? Like the other guys were saying to much HMMMM!!! Why don't you bring it here and use my glue and finish on my 1 X 30. :confused: :confused:
 
Michael, try shaping the scale around the tang with a sanding drum on a dremel. I use JB Weld with much success and rough shape the scales around the tang with the dremel. Once the handles are both attached with pins, then I put it to the grinder to finish shaping. Most of the time all I use is the dremel and hand sanding.
Roger, you'll love those loveless screws. They are real easy to use. :)
Scott
 
ok today's little job. another knife that had micarta with the scales lifting off.... tried all the new tips and tricks.... now its time to give it a try. larger knife this time too.
hey I.G. i don't think its a heat problem i'm using nice shapr belts and the handle pop before i even get down to grinding metal. i'm using the same epoxy you are now too!. alright guys i'll be back in about 15 minutes when everything goes wrong i guess. see ya then :grumpy:
 
I use devcon 2 ton epoxy all the time and I've never had it fail. I do it the same way Rob Ridley described. I cut notches in the tang on hidden tang knives and clean all the parts with epoxy before assembly. I drill all the holes for pins undersize then use a reamer that's .0005 oversized after everythings set up before I put the pins in place.
 
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