Equiptment

K

Kev

Joined
Nov 13, 1999
Messages
128
Hi,

What kind of gloves do you guys use for stick sparring? Do you like hockey, lacrosse, doce pares??? What are the pluses and minuses of these different types?

How about headgear? Doce pares, fencing, kendo??? Pluses? Minuses?

Thanks... appreciate it!
~Kev
 
Hi Kev, looks like I'm chasing you.
biggrin.gif

BTW, the Sharkee's look ugly. Did you receiver yours yet?

We used homemade Macho total face helmets glued or welded with catcher's masks or grating. Arm guards via TKD, the white ones, and TKD type chest protectors. We made our own padded sticks. Gloves were Macho point fighting type too.

The only real concern about the masks was the sticks against the metal and as I personally found out, the holes in the helmet. While sparring, a padded stick got me in the open section of the helmet. I stopped immediately. The gloves wore bad with time, expect fingerprint dings. I often just used the tie to keep my fingers together while trying to check.

The WEKAF kendo type gear looks nice but it's stiff, heavy, and expensive. BTW, some people believe you should have a neck guard, definitely not a bad idea.

 
>>Hi Kev, looks like I'm chasing you.
BTW, the Sharkee's look ugly. Did you receiver yours yet?

Nope.. just ordered tonite.

>We made our own padded sticks.

How did you make your sticks? Just curious.. I've heard some warn against using PVC(sharp edges after breaking!). If I could find a lightweight 1/2-5/8 fiberglass/composit rod to use for the core it might take the flex out while still remaining kinda light. Of course padding would be added.

>The WEKAF kendo type gear looks nice but it's stiff, heavy, and expensive. BTW, some people believe you should have a neck guard, definitely not a bad ideA.

I have some "Kendo-like" headgear from when I used to train Taiho Jitsu.. I've been wondering if it would work. The down side is the weight of this headgear. kinda makes you feel like one of those dogs with the wobbly heads in the back window of a Ford Fairlane.
smile.gif


~Kev

 
Kev, we did some rattan sticks w/ PVC type stuff w/ plenty of duct tape. Same thing with staffs but we used shovel handles, basically like "American Gladiators". I actually walked out in broad morning and night with one in my hand.
biggrin.gif


One guy I knew had a "Men" but helmet only and that was cool. BTW, taihojutsu sounds like a blast. Stories please.
smile.gif
 
The hand gear is easy. Lacrosse gloves are what we prefer, and forearm pads for beginners. All the street hockey gloves I've seen have a rigid thumb that limits wrist movement.

The head gear is the hard part. I have never used the Doce Pares head gear, but I hear the face cage isn't sufficient. Same with Kendo gear ... cage will cave in. Fencing helmet ... I've never done it, but my teacher did back when he was fighting with Eric "Top Dog" Knaus, but found them insufficient. He said that he and Eric gave each other multiple concussions and sent a few people to the hospital. Our head gear was custom made. Be very careful when experimenting with different types of head gear.

We don't use padded sticks or chest protectors, so I can't help you here.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes.

Dave Fulton



------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."




[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 01-06-2000).]
 
Lacrosse gloves ae great. Although some are bulkier than others, they all have a great range of motion. There are more expenive pairs I have that are really small and fit the hand perfectly while still offering protection. Soem of the more expensive STX and BRINE models are like this and offer a wider range of movement and a great grip which can also be modified by cutting the leather out of the palm.

Jason
 
Yup, good helmets are lacking in terms of equipment for contact sparring. I've tried fencing masks which are not padded enough on top and the side. I've tried the macho head gear but off course the face is open and some of took some nice welts in the face despite trying to avoid the face area. (Yeah, I know... lucky no eye damage but some idiots like me have to learn the hard way...) I going to try to rig face protection on these, using perhaps a toster oven grill, and see how they work.

Anybody with great ideas and/or knowledge of good head gear, let me know. If you have rigged something that works, please post a description or photos. Would greatly appreciate that.

sing

AKTI #A000356
 
Hi guys,
Just a little backround, i have won 1st in midwest and 2 in nationals in WEKAF tournaments, i am not a doce pares practioner, i am certified by Ron Balicki, telling backround because someone said that Doce Pares head gear is not sufficent. I tend to disagree. I have 8 newer styles and 4 really old ones that buckle, look like they have been through the war, we never spar with padded sticks in gear and NEVER has a mask caved in, I would use the Doce Pares head gear over any other. as far as hands i use hockey gloves with the palm cut out for stick "feel", thumb is not an issue if you get a pair that is not attached. Skate boarding elbow and hockey shin and knee work good to, i have used scoccor shin guards on my forearms, they work good too.
 
Kaliman,

Where on the net can I get a look at or order the Doce Pares head gear?

Thanks.

sing

AKTI #A000356
 
You can order the WEKAF head gear and jackets from I & I sports, otherwise very hard to find, they are not cheap but will last if taken care of.
The #1 rule is NEVER take off your own helmet, if you stretch out the velco leather it kind of sucks, but i've have fixed them if anyone has that problom.
 
Ok Kaliman,

I should've said that the cage on WEKAF (and Kendo) head gear "can" cave in.

By the same token, when you said that the cage on WEKAF head gear has never caved in you should've said something to the affect of "that I have seen".

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton





------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
You also have to remember that the gear is just gear. If you spar with Heavy, dense rattan the gear is not made to stand up to that abuse, The gear is designed fo 7 -10 oz sticks, gear is not designed for thrusting, i saw a stick splinter and rattan go in someone's eye,
 
Originally posted by kaliman:
If you spar with Heavy, dense rattan the gear is not made to stand up to that abuse, The gear is designed fo 7 -10 oz sticks, gear is not designed for thrusting,
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!!!! Heavy sticks, especially with good body mechanics can do in the WEKAF style head gear if you go full bore. Add punyos to the thrusting comment too.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton





------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
At least with the wekaf gear we can spar safely and all go to work the next day. What gear do you spar with that can handle HEAVY rattan? None. so if you want to spar with heavy rattan you will pay the price with injuries, ask any dog Brother, even the winners of the gatherings leave injured and brusied. What is the point of fighting 1 day and healing for 3 months? None. You can still train and spar realisticly and still be safe.
 
Originally posted by kaliman:
At least with the wekaf gear we can spar safely and all go to work the next day. What gear do you spar with that can handle HEAVY rattan? None. so if you want to spar with heavy rattan you will pay the price with injuries, ask any dog Brother, even the winners of the gatherings leave injured and brusied. What is the point of fighting 1 day and healing for 3 months? None. You can still train and spar realisticly and still be safe.
Click to expand...

Kaliman,

First of all, if you ask any Dog Brother ... they'll tell you that there are NO WINNERS at the Gatherings. It's contrary to the point of the Gatherings themselves.

Second, it's not a matter of fighting 1 day and healing for 3 months. I fought on saturday and will be in class tomorrow night ... and probably fight this saturday too. I'm nursing some nasty welts and bruises, but other than that I'm ok. Serious injuries can and do happen, but mostly it's nasty welts & bruises. That's why we have some serious head gear. Between the lacrosse gloves and head gear, the most likely to be injured (and most important)areas are protected.

Do you consider sparring while padded from head to toe realistic? Is there inherent danger in the way we spar? Yes, but our goal is to push it as far as possible while maintaining a reasonable safety margin. Is our method "realistic" (as in truely representing a life or death stick fight)? No, but it's a lot closer.

Our sparring has 2 purposes. One is to hone fighting skills and test our art in "real time" as they say. The other is to act as a vehicle in the hunt for "magic".

The "magic" goes beyond adrenaline and endorphins, drugs or any other form of "high". I believe that I caught the tiniest glimpse of the "magic" recently and it was incredible. The best way I can describe it is a state where your awareness, tranquility, and happiness are extremely heightened. It's a feeling that you want to maintain, so you keeping searching for it through the fighting.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton







------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
what about the students who are "corporate" employees, who cannot afford to walk around with black eye's fat lips, swollen fingers and huge welts on there arms, should these people miss out the value of sparring. I never said we were padded head to toe, just nessesities, which for me is a little more than batting gloves and fencing masks. I never said one way is better than the other just there is more than one way to skin a cat
enuff said
 
what about the students who are "corporate" employees, who cannot afford to walk around with black eye's fat lips, swollen fingers and huge welts on there arms, should these people miss out the value of sparring. I never said we were padded head to toe, just nessesities, which for me is a little more than batting gloves and fencing masks. I never said one way is better than the other just there is more than one way to skin a cat
enuff said
 
Originally posted by kaliman:
what about the students who are "corporate" employees, who cannot afford to walk around with black eye's fat lips, swollen fingers and huge welts on there arms, should these people miss out the value of sparring. I never said we were padded head to toe, just nessesities, which for me is a little more than batting gloves and fencing masks. I never said one way is better than the other just there is more than one way to skin a cat
enuff said
Click to expand...

What do you think we are? I work with Intellectual Property (ie patents, trademarks, etc) and deal with clients regularly. My teacher is a Ph.D and runs a research lab for the Nat'l Cancer Institute. Two of our senior students are also Ph.D's, one with the USAMRID and one in private sector also running a research lab. Another has his own business and yet another is in sales. Should I go on?

Show me where I said anything advocating "batting gloves and fencing masks". You say you're not padded head to toe, just the "necessities". However, previously you mentioned WEKAF head gear, jackets, gloves; elbow & knee pads from skate bording and hockey; and wearing soccer shin guards on your forearms. That's a LOT of gear compared to what we wear, and we too take the position that we are protecting just the necessities.

You say you never said one method was better than another, and yet previously you said:

"At least with the wekaf gear we can spar safely and all go to work the next day. What gear do you spar with that can handle HEAVY rattan? None."

and:

"what about the students who are "corporate" employees,..."

It sounds to me like you ARE saying one way is better than another. Can you see why I think so?

I definitely think one way is superior, but I haven't said so thus far because I realize it's not for everyone. I simply offered some advice on gear, which naturally was based how we do spar. As I said, different strokes for different folks.

I don't think it benefits anyone for us to go on like this any further, so I'm willing to say "nough said" too. I will however answer any questions that anyone has about how we spar, etc.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton


------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."




[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 01-11-2000).]
 
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