I just posted the thread about my new vest and the first comment pointed out that in a emergency it will look very high profile to LEOs. Who considered a E&E bug out scenaro? Suppose they try to force you to stay in where you are and you have to get somewhere else. Anyone given much thought to this kind of a bug out? Should we?
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Escape and Evasion
- Thread starter wade
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I guess I consider all bug-out scenarios to be Escape and Evade. You have to escape the present danger and evade everyone else who is attempting to do the same. There are scenarios where authorities may be actively preventing escape (quarantine, internment, etc.) which would, of course, potentially make evasion especially difficult. (SERE training has much to offer in this regard.)
I live in a very large city. If several million people all decide to leave at once, I've got a big problem because not everyone will fit through the door. Just look at what happened in Houston when Rita was approaching landfall.
My current plan is a mountain bike. I know people who have kayaks ready to go. Think alternative transportation. A car will just leave you trapped on the roads like everyone else.
I live in a very large city. If several million people all decide to leave at once, I've got a big problem because not everyone will fit through the door. Just look at what happened in Houston when Rita was approaching landfall.
My current plan is a mountain bike. I know people who have kayaks ready to go. Think alternative transportation. A car will just leave you trapped on the roads like everyone else.
Yes, I think it deserves alot of thought.
In this age of terrorisim, its only a matter of time before some nut case or splinter group gets thier hands on enough nuclear material for a dirty bomb. Or a germ weapon. Or something that will make it nessesary to get out of Dodge. In that case, I don't want to look like anything out of the ordinarry. In fact I've worked long and hard developing a low profile. If I pack a weapon, its out of sight under a jacket. Carry items that look very innocent but can be used to dangerous/deadly effect. Shun the tactical look. It will get attention from LEO's as well as the other side that may look at you and plan to bushwack you for the neat hardware they figure you'll be packing.
In a land of ronin, look like a peasent.
In this age of terrorisim, its only a matter of time before some nut case or splinter group gets thier hands on enough nuclear material for a dirty bomb. Or a germ weapon. Or something that will make it nessesary to get out of Dodge. In that case, I don't want to look like anything out of the ordinarry. In fact I've worked long and hard developing a low profile. If I pack a weapon, its out of sight under a jacket. Carry items that look very innocent but can be used to dangerous/deadly effect. Shun the tactical look. It will get attention from LEO's as well as the other side that may look at you and plan to bushwack you for the neat hardware they figure you'll be packing.
In a land of ronin, look like a peasent.
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E & E is the name of the game in survival. The object is to get from point A, to point D, without seeing B & C. The problem comes when you can't see the enemy. Even when they are right next to you, because they look like your neighbor, the local police, the National guard and the army. The only one that you can trust, the only one that you can count on to keep you safe and alive, is you! Then you add your family to the list of people needing you and your expertise and the problem suddenly becomes a mtn. That's where training, common sense and a whole lot of luck enter into the scenario.
I wouldnt be so pesimistic about anyone making nuclear devices "hack and saw" style, considering that governmental projects with lots of money and people who actually studied the science go dud all the time.
Pakistani managed to dud a gun-bomb design and NK is first nation which managed to dud implosion device.....(O.K. loosers, but still governmentall project with plenty of subvention and working in decent conditions, not in garrage.)
Its not very easy and to miniaturize it for stealth style attack is advancement engeneering task.
Otherwise I agree with all above, on the other side, if youll be a bad guy, would you like to look "tactic" and conspicious....
Hardly.
Pakistani managed to dud a gun-bomb design and NK is first nation which managed to dud implosion device.....(O.K. loosers, but still governmentall project with plenty of subvention and working in decent conditions, not in garrage.)
Its not very easy and to miniaturize it for stealth style attack is advancement engeneering task.
Otherwise I agree with all above, on the other side, if youll be a bad guy, would you like to look "tactic" and conspicious....
Hardly.
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Also, it's probably worth considering that after a certain level of societal breakdown, today's respectable military and police could conceivably become tomorrow's not-so-respectable (and not-so-altruistically-trustworthy) warlords. You don't have to have anything but respect for the government as it stands now, to prepare against the possibility that in the future the helm might be in very different hands. Which, come to think of it, is why the founders of our government created the Second Amendment, no?
It's very easy to imagine some kind of post-disaster scenario in which you'd want to retain the option of being findable only at will. Actually, the recently-popular drug-growers' habit of planting their crops in national forests (and posting armed guards) provides an even-more-pragmatic argument for at least being able to keep a low profile: if I happened across somebody's illicit crop while on a hike, I'd feel a lot more comfortable in my hasty retreat if I were in something low-visibility than in blaze orange.
It's very easy to imagine some kind of post-disaster scenario in which you'd want to retain the option of being findable only at will. Actually, the recently-popular drug-growers' habit of planting their crops in national forests (and posting armed guards) provides an even-more-pragmatic argument for at least being able to keep a low profile: if I happened across somebody's illicit crop while on a hike, I'd feel a lot more comfortable in my hasty retreat if I were in something low-visibility than in blaze orange.
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I'm thinking that they would make it visually impossible to pass yourself off as part of their forces. I mean, they know that there are a lot of people with camo and tac gear, so they would want to be able to recognize each other at a glance and at the same time, not allow others to infiltrate, simply because they wore camo.
I remember that during WWII, the Germans would use the uniforms of captured or killed American soldiers, to infiltrate behind the lines and create havok. The Allies came up with an armband that was worn by everyone while not in battle. Actually, there were several versions of the armband. Being several different colors, they would change the armbands at random, everyone changing theirs at the same time and after implimentation, the Germans attempts failed.
I remember that during WWII, the Germans would use the uniforms of captured or killed American soldiers, to infiltrate behind the lines and create havok. The Allies came up with an armband that was worn by everyone while not in battle. Actually, there were several versions of the armband. Being several different colors, they would change the armbands at random, everyone changing theirs at the same time and after implimentation, the Germans attempts failed.
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Blue jeans and cotton or flannel shirt instead of cammies. Personal weapon (pistol or knife) concealed. Lever-action deer rifle instead of a Mini-14 in the truck, or better yet, locked in the toolbox in the bed. Rambo attitude firmly in check.
These are ideas I've been reading a lot about lately, and they make a heck of a lot of sense, whether the stuff hits the fan or not.
I think you're right to rely on yourself and be inconspicuous. No one ever notices a "regular guy" picking up a couple bags of ice on the way out of town... the guy in the camo-painted pickup is gonna get looked at funny.
These are ideas I've been reading a lot about lately, and they make a heck of a lot of sense, whether the stuff hits the fan or not.
I think you're right to rely on yourself and be inconspicuous. No one ever notices a "regular guy" picking up a couple bags of ice on the way out of town... the guy in the camo-painted pickup is gonna get looked at funny.
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yeah- blend in with the civilians - best practice for e&e. I'd be wearing civvies of a subdued colour like a flanny in green and jeans that are very dirty- use water and dirt to make them dirty. It will just make you look more down and out, a little too dangerous to harass, and you can blend in to environment pretty quick of you have to hide. If you are fully cammed up and have to come out in th open then you will be a target. If you are dirty and come out into the open people will probably give you a wide berth - which is what you want (I think).
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If you are dirty (**and dressed in civvies**)and come out into the open people will probably give you a wide berth - which is what you want (I think).
I think everyone can remember how in the movie The Fugitive, Harrison Ford made a quick escape in the city by simply putting on a hat, and walking in a parade. Sometimes it's just that simple. In an urban situation. wearing street cloths, I.E. Tom Cruse style (War of the Worlds). Is the way to go, but if your route is through woods you may as well invest in some good hunters camo. Much better concealment than military patterns.
E&E in an urban environment is not really a matter of concealment, it is more a matter of camouflage. Have a stroll through your neighbourhood at different times of the day and night, taking careful note of the people that are seen going about their daily business. There are deliverymen, mailmen, cleaners, maintenance workers, homeless people, dog walkers, shopkeepers, joggers, and the list goes on.
All of these people have a place in a normal urban landscape and generally do not register as hostile or "unusual".
Your challenge in a given situation is to blend in as a normal part of the scenery. What could be more innocent than a shopkeeper sweeping the sidewalk? If you are in a SHTF situation, dressing and behaving as an inoffensive normal citizen is your best means of camouflage. Dressed as our "shopkeeper" with a broom, simply stop and sweep when the prowl car (or helo etc) spots you, them move on towards your destination.
I favour the "maintenance worker" as they can be seen everywhere, tools and equipment bags can double as weapons and PSKs, khaki workclothes are nondescript and provide good natural camo once you are out of the urban problem area.
Every location is different, so I recommend that you have a good look at your neighbourhood before picking your E&E disguise, and be prepared to vary it as circumstances change.
Interesting comments above. It is good to see people taking this seriously.
All of these people have a place in a normal urban landscape and generally do not register as hostile or "unusual".
Your challenge in a given situation is to blend in as a normal part of the scenery. What could be more innocent than a shopkeeper sweeping the sidewalk? If you are in a SHTF situation, dressing and behaving as an inoffensive normal citizen is your best means of camouflage. Dressed as our "shopkeeper" with a broom, simply stop and sweep when the prowl car (or helo etc) spots you, them move on towards your destination.
I favour the "maintenance worker" as they can be seen everywhere, tools and equipment bags can double as weapons and PSKs, khaki workclothes are nondescript and provide good natural camo once you are out of the urban problem area.
Every location is different, so I recommend that you have a good look at your neighbourhood before picking your E&E disguise, and be prepared to vary it as circumstances change.
Interesting comments above. It is good to see people taking this seriously.
Not to turn this into a camo thread, but, hunter's patterns are "static" camoflauge. Work great when you aren't moving.
If you are moving you can't beat the USMC marpat. Folks resist the newer pixelated patterns out of tradition, but, i will tell you straight-up, they work, and work very, very well.
In the world of camo there is passive and active. You not onyl select camo based on your theater of operation, err, area (sorry to break into jargon), but you must consider the season, and your movement.
if you are on the move and wearing Mossy Oak, you might as well be wearing simple ODs.
The pixelated camos do work. Some people say they fool the eyes. What they really do is disrupt the signal from your eye to brain. Your actual vision sees the pattern, but cannot translate it to your brain correctly.
The pixelated patterns also work more universally than a specific pattern, like the hunter patterns. Again, I'll used Mossy oak as an example. As soon as you move from hardwood forest, into an evergreen area, your screwed.
Open field? forget it.
All camo has it's place and use, just choose wisely and then employ proper strategy. Camo alone won't do squat if you aren't practicing the other aspects of concealment. The lightweight Leaf Suits are pretty effective, I ahve seen them used to good effect.
What I would like to see more of is a reversible jacket, maybe tan or OD solid, to blend with the sheeple better, but, reversable to a camo pattern for that chameleon change over.
If you need to evade in a hurry, try a small piece of vented camo tarp material. It's like a poor man's ghillie. Fold up a 4ft by 4ft peice in your pack, if things got crappy, you can cut a hole in it, poncho style, and cover your silhouette with it. I have a larger 6ft by 10 foot piece, it's super lightweight and manufactored like the "leaf suits" (Not the heavy rubber kind of tarps they use to drape over vehicles, way too heavy).
If you are moving you can't beat the USMC marpat. Folks resist the newer pixelated patterns out of tradition, but, i will tell you straight-up, they work, and work very, very well.
In the world of camo there is passive and active. You not onyl select camo based on your theater of operation, err, area (sorry to break into jargon), but you must consider the season, and your movement.
if you are on the move and wearing Mossy Oak, you might as well be wearing simple ODs.
The pixelated camos do work. Some people say they fool the eyes. What they really do is disrupt the signal from your eye to brain. Your actual vision sees the pattern, but cannot translate it to your brain correctly.
The pixelated patterns also work more universally than a specific pattern, like the hunter patterns. Again, I'll used Mossy oak as an example. As soon as you move from hardwood forest, into an evergreen area, your screwed.
Open field? forget it.
All camo has it's place and use, just choose wisely and then employ proper strategy. Camo alone won't do squat if you aren't practicing the other aspects of concealment. The lightweight Leaf Suits are pretty effective, I ahve seen them used to good effect.
What I would like to see more of is a reversible jacket, maybe tan or OD solid, to blend with the sheeple better, but, reversable to a camo pattern for that chameleon change over.
If you need to evade in a hurry, try a small piece of vented camo tarp material. It's like a poor man's ghillie. Fold up a 4ft by 4ft peice in your pack, if things got crappy, you can cut a hole in it, poncho style, and cover your silhouette with it. I have a larger 6ft by 10 foot piece, it's super lightweight and manufactored like the "leaf suits" (Not the heavy rubber kind of tarps they use to drape over vehicles, way too heavy).
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I had originally planned on bugging out in a sports team mascot outfit with my ( light for me! ) alice pack slung over my shoulder. I figure nobody is going to mess with a giant fluffy 8ft kangaroo with a backpack!
Codger_64
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A word of caution here mate. If a boomer takes interest, just pretend to be grazing like a good jill. And you can carry your pack in your pouch. At least until the joey is due!
Codger
While leaving the city being in civies is probably the best but it doesn't hurt to have a ruck loaded with some "goodies" in the trunk for when you're in a more rural enviroment. Camo-wise I just stick with my MARPAT (it is the best easily available) but hope to oick up some of the newer multicam soon just for this application.
I think the biggest mistake people make is taking too much. ONE knife, ONE gun (maybe a sidearm&primary combo) ONE pack. If you're running away with your KABAR, multitool, and tactical folder you just scream "hey I'm running away from the chaos" ANd don't get something really "tactical" for this (ie "dork ops") and even if you do I'd suggest concealing it
I think the biggest mistake people make is taking too much. ONE knife, ONE gun (maybe a sidearm&primary combo) ONE pack. If you're running away with your KABAR, multitool, and tactical folder you just scream "hey I'm running away from the chaos" ANd don't get something really "tactical" for this (ie "dork ops") and even if you do I'd suggest concealing it
The main school of thought in an Escape & Evasion situation seems to be "beome the grey (gray) man", I think Id dress in dull, drab outdoor-worker type clothes, nothing TOO tactical or military looking & keep any weapons (IF I could get hold of anything apart from a blade!) well hidden. Id probably carry camo gear & a large camo tarp but it WOULD attract unneccesary attention in the city.
