ESEE 4 and Bark river bravo 1 destruction test on youtube

[knife chop]

I've seen the Esee 4 destruction test in the past and i have to say it did great. on the other hand i thought the bravo 1 will perform the same or better but i didn't. Isn't A2 is tougher and is more wear resistant the 1095? was that a lemon or what others claim that the temper was ruined due to power grinding? either way that test deterred me from buying a bravo 1. although maybe in the future. i have to give it a lot of thought.

 

[KennyB]

Well, I'm quite certain the overwhelming point to be made is: Why would you need your knife to hold up to the test? Then questions about whether your use includes standing on the blade or using it as a crowbar.

Look, the reason why the Bark River knife broke is simple: It was a hardened cutting tool not meant to be treated in the way it was treated. It's meant to cut, not to pry or smash or beat.

The reason the ESEE 4 didn't break is also simple: It was designed to stand up to that type of abuse. ESEE runs their 1095 soft and also uses a proprietary heat treatment that allows then to offer a no questions asked warranty. The blade is basically made to dare you to break it. Most knivse are not "overbuilt" in this respect so choosing one that is, is up to the user.

So it's pretty simple, if you actually need to do any of the stuff shown in that video then just go with an ESEE 4 or a similar made knife--where abuse and hard use is what it was designed with in mind. Do not think I'm saying that the ESEE is better either because it's stronger... If YOU need a "stronger" knife that might be your ultimate opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people would say that beacuse of the thick blade geometries and the soft steel that the edge retention and cutting ability is lacking in ESEE knives.

Bark River knives, while I don't have many good things to say about the company or owner, the knive speak for themselves. They have an emphasis on materials and craftsmanship and they grind the blades very thin to be extremely good slicers and cutters. Not a lot of thought is put into "Can you pry with it?" because they are not being sold to people who want to use it to pry typically--I mean frankly if you spend the kind of money that people spend on these knives, even if you KNEW it would never fail, would you really want to treat it that badly anyway? ESEE and more "economical" blades like them are used for "beaters" more often than Bark Rivers I'd imagine.

 

[Barabus]

Well, I'm quite certain the overwhelming point to be made is: Why would you need your knife to hold up to the test? Then questions about whether your use includes standing on the blade or using it as a crowbar.

Look, the reason why the Bark River knife broke is simple: It was a hardened cutting tool not meant to be treated in the way it was treated. It's meant to cut, not to pry or smash or beat.

The reason the ESEE 4 didn't break is also simple: It was designed to stand up to that type of abuse. ESEE runs their 1095 soft and also uses a proprietary heat treatment that allows then to offer a no questions asked warranty. The blade is basically made to dare you to break it. Most knivse are not "overbuilt" in this respect so choosing one that is, is up to the user.

So it's pretty simple, if you actually need to do any of the stuff shown in that video then just go with an ESEE 4 or a similar made knife--where abuse and hard use is what it was designed with in mind. Do not think I'm saying that the ESEE is better either because it's stronger... If YOU need a "stronger" knife that might be your ultimate opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people would say that beacuse of the thick blade geometries and the soft steel that the edge retention and cutting ability is lacking in ESEE knives.

Bark River knives, while I don't have many good things to say about the company or owner, the knive speak for themselves. They have an emphasis on materials and craftsmanship and they grind the blades very thin to be extremely good slicers and cutters. Not a lot of thought is put into "Can you pry with it?" because they are not being sold to people who want to use it to pry typically--I mean frankly if you spend the kind of money that people spend on these knives, even if you KNEW it would never fail, would you really want to treat it that badly anyway? ESEE and more "economical" blades like them are used for "beaters" more often than Bark Rivers I'd imagine.

Great answer. Very enlightened.

 

[link2derek]

I broke a 24" pry-bar once... and on top of that, the damn thing couldn't cut through warm butter. I think I got screwed....

 

[Jason B.]

That's why I don't like bark river, any knife that can't make it through a cinder block must be faulty.

 

[knife chop]

Well, I'm quite certain the overwhelming point to be made is: Why would you need your knife to hold up to the test? Then questions about whether your use includes standing on the blade or using it as a crowbar.

Look, the reason why the Bark River knife broke is simple: It was a hardened cutting tool not meant to be treated in the way it was treated. It's meant to cut, not to pry or smash or beat.

The reason the ESEE 4 didn't break is also simple: It was designed to stand up to that type of abuse. ESEE runs their 1095 soft and also uses a proprietary heat treatment that allows then to offer a no questions asked warranty. The blade is basically made to dare you to break it. Most knivse are not "overbuilt" in this respect so choosing one that is, is up to the user.

So it's pretty simple, if you actually need to do any of the stuff shown in that video then just go with an ESEE 4 or a similar made knife--where abuse and hard use is what it was designed with in mind. Do not think I'm saying that the ESEE is better either because it's stronger... If YOU need a "stronger" knife that might be your ultimate opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people would say that beacuse of the thick blade geometries and the soft steel that the edge retention and cutting ability is lacking in ESEE knives.

Bark River knives, while I don't have many good things to say about the company or owner, the knive speak for themselves. They have an emphasis on materials and craftsmanship and they grind the blades very thin to be extremely good slicers and cutters. Not a lot of thought is put into "Can you pry with it?" because they are not being sold to people who want to use it to pry typically--I mean frankly if you spend the kind of money that people spend on these knives, even if you KNEW it would never fail, would you really want to treat it that badly anyway? ESEE and more "economical" blades like them are used for "beaters" more often than Bark Rivers I'd imagine.

Great info. but how can you explain rolling from chopping? i have a Spyderco southfork and military s90v also Mora's with a very fine edge and didn't suffer from any rolling or chips from cross batoning and chopping. how can my mora's survive an abuse and a thick knife and tough steel couldn't? i hear you but is there a chance that the knife might have been a lemon? or what others claim to be?


I'm just a confused knife addict/collector on why a well known tough steel failed like that.

 

[BigRob]

Is it against the rules too post youtube links.. if not can you post it so I can watch it

 

[me2]

All the rolling/denting of my knives seen from chopping wood is likely from overheating the edge during power sharpening. I say that because the damage isn't there if I sharpen on water stones or water cooled grinding wheels and ceramics (Sharpmaker). I doubt the A2 used by BRKT is tougher than ESEE's 1095. It is tougher than the S90V you mentioned almost certainly.

 

[Karambit777]

Yea can you reference your claim that a bravo 1 broke during a test on Youtube??? Because I don't believe these two knives have ever went head to head in a destruction test. The Bravo 1 is a beast of a blade. I know personally because I own one. along with the Bravo 1.5 and the Gunny. As thick and heavy duty as the Bravo 1 is, it would have to take a S&@! ton of force to break that blade. Im not saying that it didn't, but I would appreciate some proof behind that pretty bold statement. I am a fan of both the ESEE and Barkie. And if you cant post the link to the video, then at least tell us the name or title heading of the video.

 

[Karambit777]

Nevermind I think I found the videos your were talking about. This joker that was doing the testing was taking a heavy steel hammer and pounding the Bravo into a 3'' solid cender block, The bravo didn't break, it only chipped the edge, and what knife wouldn't under those circumstances. Any knife would chip under that much Extreme abuse, I mean c'mon man. The Bravo did break in the vice after he was finished pounding away at it with the heavy hammer into the block. Under Normally hard use conditions the Bravo would never break, and by normally hard I mean hard tasks that knives are made to endure. Any knife would be severely damaged doing what this guy was doing to them.

 

[knife chop]

Yea can you reference your claim that a bravo 1 broke during a test on Youtube??? Because I don't believe these two knives have ever went head to head in a destruction test. The Bravo 1 is a beast of a blade. I know personally because I own one. along with the Bravo 1.5 and the Gunny. As thick and heavy duty as the Bravo 1 is, it would have to take a S&@! ton of force to break that blade. Im not saying that it didn't, but I would appreciate some proof behind that pretty bold statement. I am a fan of both the ESEE and Barkie. And if you cant post the link to the video, then at least tell us the name or title heading of the video.

http://youtu.be/UlwwX2bAwI8

I'm sure long time members here knows noss knife tests. I'm not sure if he's in the forums. Most of his tests has been deleted since he closed his YouTube account and shut down his website. I'm surprised that some people were able to get a hold of his video tests.

There's 3 or 5 parts of the video.

 

[knife chop]

Nevermind I think I found the videos your were talking about. This joker that was doing the testing was taking a heavy steel hammer and pounding the Bravo into a 3'' solid cender block, The bravo didn't break, it only chipped the edge, and what knife wouldn't under those circumstances. Any knife would chip under that much Extreme abuse, I mean c'mon man. The Bravo did break in the vice after he was finished pounding away at it with the heavy hammer into the block. Under Normally hard use conditions the Bravo would never break, and by normally hard I mean hard tasks that knives are made to endure. Any knife would be severely damaged doing what this guy was doing to them.

I hear you. But you have not seen his glock 81, esee 4 and cold steel bushman, dan keffler, and busse test. These knives passed with flying colors. I hope those videos will show up one day again. I know his tests were very abusive but how can a cold steel bushman survive his tests made with a 1075 steel and an A2 bravo 1 didn't. I'm not a metallurgist or a knife maker to know all the answers but what I know is a A2 at 59 rc should still be tough.

I thought I've seen all his tests until I saw the bravo 1.

 

[goodeyesniper]

I hear you. But you have not seen his glock 81, esee 4 and cold steel bushman, dan keffler, and busse test. These knives passed with flying colors. I hope those videos will show up one day again. I know his tests were very abusive but how can a cold steel bushman survive his tests made with a 1075 steel and an A2 bravo 1 didn't. I'm not a metallurgist or a knife maker to know all the answers but what I know is a A2 at 59 rc should still be tough.

I thought I've seen all his tests until I saw the bravo 1.

Wait, you are questioning why soft 1075 is stronger than hard A2?

 

[RevDevil]

Great info. but how can you explain rolling from chopping? i have a Spyderco southfork and military s90v also Mora's with a very fine edge and didn't suffer from any rolling or chips from cross batoning and chopping. how can my mora's survive an abuse and a thick knife and tough steel couldn't? i hear you but is there a chance that the knife might have been a lemon? or what others claim to be?

I'm just a confused knife addict/collector on why a well known tough steel failed like that.

Most folks don't use a hardened steel mallet to hammer a hardened steel blade. I can't explain why the blade rolled any more than I can explain the mask, and other acts of silliness on those videos people find amazing and wonderous when watching them for the first time. Another thing to consider, most people and I would bet that is 99.99888% do not use knives to the point of destruction.

A lot of knives will roll at the edge when driven into wood across the grain and have lateral forces applied. It can happen to just about any knife with or without a super obese thickness behind the edge. I don't necessarily think the knife is a lemon is you are beating the living crap out of it with the end goal is only to see it destroyed. What is confusing is not realizing that and asking a rhetorical question to boot. I suspect the other knives you mention did not have a comparable heat treat as the Bravo 1 did. It's hard to answer that question because we don't know what the hardness was on the knives that passed. 10## series steel is very tough especially when rendered at a lower hardness. Higher carbide steels at higher hardness seem to have some brittleness, goes without saying it would seem.
/shrug

 

[Karambit777]

Exactly. The Bravo 1 is treated to achieve 59 or 60 Rockwell. A hard blade like the Bravo will not flex like the other 1095's and spring steel I don't think. But I would bank that the Bravo in A2 tool steel would hold an edge longer than an ESEE in 1095. And the thickness of the Bravo will prevent breakage under normal "hard" use. Plus I would have to assume that beating a Bravo with a Steel hammer would have microscopic effects on the molecular structure, and the integrity of the steel. In a nutshell Hardened tool steels don't make the best pry bars, but they are superior in edge holding capabilities. :thumbup: ... A good analogy would be a ceramic blade. Ceramic blades are harder than steel blades and hold and edge longer, but the will snap in a heartbeat if forced in a lateral angle. Its just one of those things to take into consideration when buying a knife. That's why there are so many options in steel choices. The many options are out there for a reason, and a knowledgeable knife owner will decide based on the molecular structure of the steel for his or her needs. Just gotta pick the right tool for the job. :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[knife chop]

I can't help but to compare these.

(Cpm m4) http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/Pictures/Info/Steel/M4-DS-Crucible.pdf
(A2) http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6218

Just by looking at the composition. Cpm m4 is more wear resistant and less tougher than A2 right?

Bark river's A2 is hardened at 59-60 rc

Benchmade's CPM M4 is hardened at 62-64 rc (correct me if I'm wrong)

This is Benchmade's test on their M4 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V5N1dzv-zKI

If you compare the tests there's some similarity and considering cpm m4's rc hardness and toughness compare to bark river, it didn't fail.

 

[Balls Deep]

To reiterate what I think others are saying. Hitting steel with steel is bad. Soft things bend and hard things break. You've got to decide what you prefer: a hard thing that holds and edge that you shouldn't smack, or a soft thing you can smack that may not have as intense of an edge.