ESEE 5 vs RC-5 vs RAT-5 (1095) vs RAT-5 (D2)

J

jnphares

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Feb 23, 2007
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I'm normally a Busse/Swamp Rat/Scrap Yard collector, but recently came across what I considered to be a good price on some D2 RAT-5s, so I bought a few. Later I read some comments that some preferred the 1095 models due to D2 heat treatment issues, and others that the RC-5 was superior to Ontario's knives. My impression was that generally, and assuming a proper heat treatment, D2 is considered a higher-end steel. Now I've discovered that RAT has changed their name to ESEE, although the new 5-inch model looks a lot like the old RC-5. So, I'm looking for information about relative merits of these knives, which all appear pretty much the same, but appear to have different followings.

Hopefully I'm not offending anyone by bringing Ontario into the mix, but for one thing that's what I bought (in D2), and it seems that they're a significant part of this design's marketing story.
 
hi and welcome,

there are a few differences in the ontario rat5 and the esee or rc5 made by rowen. first the rowen knives are 1/4inch thick instead of the thinner blades from ontario, the heat treat was inconsistant from ontario and the fit and finish of the rowen blades is much nicer.

now i have a ontario rat7 in d2 and its been a fine knife but there have been many reports of them being brittle and snapping while battoning wood. mines been just fine. that said i prefer the esee/rc knives from rowen 1st for the customer service and warranty, 2nd the fit and finish, and 3rd the sheaths and options that are available for them.

the rc5/esee5 is a very differnt knife from the old ontario rat 5, if you get a chance to hold one you will see what i mean.

take it easy
cricket
 
The RAT-5 is a flat grind, .187" thick knife that is a great slicer. The ESEE5 is a knife designed by SERE instructors to essentially be able to be beat the hell out of and survive it.

The problem with the Ontario RATs in D2, was that a batch of RAT-7s (I don't think other models were effected) were overly brittle and prone to breaking when struck like in batoning. I've never heard a complaint about the RAT-5
 
Thanks for the responses. I was really looking for more of a slicer than many of the other knives I own, so the RAT's thinner D2 blade wasn't an issue. However, hindsight being 20/20, I'd have probably been happier with a mix containing RC-4s or even 3s than all 5s -- they're bigger in-hand than they looked in the pictures with just a knife and sheath. That being said, they appear well-made, and I'm not unhappy with them; my main post-purchase concern was about possible brittleness issues (CP, thanks for noting that issue was limited to 7s, and cricket, I'm glad to hear that yours wasn't part of that batch). A smaller knife would have been more EDC-able, whereas the 5s are good knives, but they're sized for the woods, not in-town.
 
for slicing and everyday carry the esee3 is truly hard to beat. i carry the 6 the most in the woods and the rat 7 never gets out of the safe anymore. the sheaths are just that much better from esee.

take it easy
cricket
 
Another vote for the three for edc. I've really been happy with one in my pocket
 
First of all, welcome to the forum.

The Ontario RAT knives are good knives. But in my experience the ESEE (formerly Rat Cutlery) knives are the better deal overall. I say if you found a good deal on some RAT-5s, sell a couple and pick up a couple of the new ESEE blades, maybe a 3 and a 4.

Try them out and see if you aren’t impressed with how much knife you get for around $100. I always joke that the “No BS” warranty has double meaning. It’s no BS hassle that you need to have your receipt and a picture of you holding that day’s newspaper to prove when you bought it. And it’s no BS that the warranty REALLY is as simple and as no questions asked as they state.

Busses, Swamp Rats, etc. are great knives. Give some ESEE blades a chance I think you’ll be very pleased.
 
The RC5/ESEE5 is not the best slicer of the family due to the sabre grind and thickness, but it is an excellent knife and built like a tank.
 
Really, at this point, unless you just want to save money, the RAT-5 and TAK are the only reasons to go with Ontario Rats, as there really is no ESEE equivalent right now for those two.

As an alternative to the RAT-5, I'd go with the ESEE 6, as it's right between the RAT-5 and RAT-7 in length and still a .187" thick blade with a full flat grind.

If you want a chopper/slicer combo, then pair an ESEE3 with either a Jjunglas or Lite Machete, and you're set.

The Izula is the balls for EDC.
 
I'd like to have 'em all! lol!
I have an older 5 and love it. Got it before the name change.
It's my favorite "user"...but only gets used in woods, unfortunately. Izula gets daily use. HEST gets some rotation as well.

To your point on the steels...I know D2 is suppossed to be better...but I for one prefer regular high carbon. It sharpens so much easier for me...heck I think sometimes I could sharpen it with a rock in the wild! lol!
 
I just received an ESEE HEST -- I was concerned that the pry bar/scraper tool would make the handle feel cramped, but it's quite comfortable for my hands. It's my first non-Ontario RAT, and represents ESEE quite well.

I suppose that the HEST news is off-topic for this thread, but since I started it, I figure it's OK for me to hijack it.
 
I have the Rat-5 from Ontario. Also own the Izula and HEST.

On the Ontario Rat 5, it turns out that I got a very early model. The guy had it from the late 1990's and it was a safe queen for him - which is a concept I'll never understand...but it worked out well for me.

If needed, I will not even bother trying to get a replacement or fix from Ontario, I'll just buy the ESEE blade necessary to replace it.

At this time, that replacement would NOT be the ESEE 5 - it'd be smaller or bigger. I like the full flat grind, and the thinner blade of the Ontario 5 over the ESEE 5. I've filleted fish and skinned animals with my Rat-5 and I don't think I'd like the bulkier blade and I don't see me cutting my way out of a fuselodge...and Ive beat on my Rat-5 plenty to know I trust it.

Given all the history that I now know of..., it would be GREAT if the Rat-5 would fail me so I could buy an ESSE or a RC....but I lived many hard years in army, woods, and survival schools with lesser knives...so I think I'll be "stuck" with the Ontario 5 for a long, long time.

I take solice in the fact that the Rat-5 is about the PERFECT sized bushcraft and survival knife. (for me) I've beat on it for many trips and it's still just barely looking broke in.
Jeff and Mike have had great ideas on knives from the start! :)
 
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