Etch and Quench (quench and etch)

T

tommyKnocker

Joined
Mar 6, 2005
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Two things I'm having trouble finding information on are quenching mediums and etching. I'm a registered user of hydrochloric acid, but I've gone to lengths of letting steels soak in the stuff for over a day after scratching away the "tar" material with barely distinguishable results. I've tried consulting professors of material's processing from the university I'm attending and they haven't been able to tell me much. I think one of them said that hydrochloric acid might work better with aluminum rather than steel, but that doesn't help me much with the steel issue. Is ferric chloride the answer? As for quenching mediums, I already understand that the rate of cooling determines grain growth which is responsible for where the metal turns out on the spectrum from hard and brittle to soft and flexible. The viscosity of the fluid would control the cooling rate where oil could produce springs and water could produce nails. That would be the physics of it. My question is rather about the chemistry of it. Could I get various finishes and results through different mediums? Vinegar, bleach, and ammonia all basically have the viscosity of water, but do they produce different colorations and shines? Other mediums I'm trying to find out about are milk, dish detergent, isopropyl alcohol, and cornsyrup. I'd think that when high levels of heat would be introduced to corn syrup it'd carmelize and the remaining carbon would act as interstitial molecules strengthening the surface, but I haven't read anything about common uses of high-fructose mediums and wonder if there's a reason for that. I'd very much appreciate any help or direction anyone could give me with this.
 
The people here that use ferric chloride(myself included, occasionally) report good results from it.

The thing is, don't use it full strength, but cut it at least 50% with distilled water, and degrease your blade before immersion.

Some even dilute 5-1, water to ferric, with excellent results on non stainless steels.:eek:

Our resident chemist(Mike Fitzgerald, or Fitzo) has a very bad case of a flu like virus, and is not around at the moment, or he would give you a much better answer than I can.

Edited to add; Welcome to Bladeforums! Enjoy!:D
 
umm.... red hot metal quenched in isopropyl alcohol could result in an explosion since alcohol is pretty flammable stuff. Basicly check the flash point. oil is flammable but it needs to come up to a flash point, alcohol will vaporise and burn right from the get go. the vapors are explosive!
 
I learned how to etch damascus steel from Charles Oches and have been very satisfied with the method. Many use Feric Chloride with good success but I like muratic acid. I think it is also called Hydrochloric acid.
I use muratic acid full strength at 70 or 80 degrees F. I submurge the blade in the acid for 5 minutes, take out, dip in water and sand with 600 grit sandpaper. Then I rinse in water and put back in the acid. For pattern welded damascus it takes about five cycles. On the last cycle when the pattern is showing I spray the blade with windex to neutralize the acid and blue with Birchwood Casey cold blueing.
Wire Damascus and motorcycle chain-chainsaw damascus takes a lot longer to bring the pattern out.
Be sure to do this outside and don't breath the fumes.
Feric Chloride is probably safer but I like the way the muratic works for me.
You can see some of my damascus blades at
http://www.cavemen.net/lewisknives/
 
Welcome,
The quench medium controls the cooling rate of steel. Basically the steel is heated to austenizing temparature then quenched to gain hardness by transforming austenite to martensite. Mete would explain this surely better but the quench medium is not supposed to chemically react with steel although it may. The role of the medium is not chemical but physical. You can then give certain capabilities to steel by tempering it at different temps. Although there is much more different ways to Heat treat steel,mostly done this way...
There are many topics related to your question and I'm not the right person to cover all of them :) .
Best wishes
Emre KIPMEN
 
do yourself a favor and spend $10.buy David Boye's "step-by-step knifemaking" everything you need to know about etching blades is there.
 
Thanks for the help. I tried scouring the web and read through previous posts for about an hour, but finding the direct answers turned out to be more trouble than I thought it'd be. Metallurgy books that I've come across tend to be more of the "textbook" persuasion (which isn't so bad except they're priced accordingly). Perhaps specifing "knife-making" would work out better. You're etching advice is very helpful and is pretty much just what I'm looking for. Much obliged. As for the quenching mediums, I'll probably be shying away from the isopropyl. If anyone were to have any further comments or advice on this specific topic, I'd still greatly appreciate hearing them.
-Tom
 
Welcome Tom, you've found a good place. I don't have much to add but I would suggest that your quenchant would be determined by your steel to a great extent.

Simple carbon steels like O1, 10XX, 5160, etc do best in light oil heated to around 120 deg F. The "W" steels are intended for water or brine quenching; the previous steels can sometimes be successfully quenched in water but risk destruction from the stress of quenching rapidly. Most stainless steels are quenched in air, either still air or under a blower. Very general but maybe a place to start.

A fast quench (brine) usually makes for a more pronounced temper line, if that's what you're going for.

Good luck and keep us posted with your results. :cool:
 
Shakudo said:
do yourself a favor and spend $10.buy David Boye's "step-by-step knifemaking" everything you need to know about etching blades is there.
Click to expand...

They are talking about etching scenes on the blade, like whales etc., not the entire blade.
Different scenario altogether.:eek:;)
 
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