Etching question

Nathan House

Nathan House

Joined
Feb 14, 2000
Messages
1,204
Hi
I got some new stenciles and I did one knife I just finished.
I get a good deep burn and then when I go into the blacking.
I do 5 strickes with about 3 seconds hold.After I am done
I take the stencil off and I have a deep etch and I get som blacking around the etch,not just in the etch itself.I go and do about 2 strokes with my hand rubbing block and it looks great.My question is
if I do any bedbalst finish or other types,how do I get around the black hazing around the logo, I will not be able to correct it if there is any other type of finsih on a blade.
Thanks
 
It sounds like either your stencil is not taped to the blade, the stencil burned out around your name, or the pad is way too wet when you are dabbing the stencil.

On bead blast, it is really tricky to etch your logo. The pad must be barely damp.
 
Mike
I used masking tape this was my first burn.Leason learned
the pad may have also been to wet,it really does not take much
I will give your suggestion a try on my next blade
thanks for the input.
Nathan
 
Hi Nathan.. I had the same problem. Make sure you have the right solution for the type of steel. I tried using the general purpose etching solution that came with the unit and screwed up a couple of blades before I realized and got the solution for stainless.
As stated go real easy on the amount of solution,less is better.
Make sure the stencil is taped down tightly and avoid the temptation to lift it to see how the etch is looking. Sure as shooting you will not get it down in exactly the same position and this will result in a hazy looking or unreadable logo. Also do not put too much pressure on the pad as this will squeeze solution to other areas of the blade and result in near suicidal thoughts racing to your mind. TAPE all of the blade not to be etched and neutralize the blade immeadiately.
Practice on some scrap pieces of steel pepared to the finish of your blade and you will soon get the hang time and pressure required for different degrees of etch you want.
How do I know all this? Cause I am the dumbest guy on the planet and didn't listen when I was given all this sage wisdom and had to learn the hard way.
Here's a tip.....wash your stencils after use and if possible use the green ones as they seem to work better than the gold ones.
Also you can make your own felt pads. Go to the sewing/milners store and get a 8 1/2 X 11 inch piece of white felt for 50c. Trace out the two different shapes and cut away. You will never have to use a dirty
one again.

Jim Ziegler
 
Jim
Some good sound advice,I don't use marking methods stencils.
I use IMG my stencils mine are kinda purple blue color.I wash my
stencils right after use.One thing you hit on is the pressure
I am on the very strong side from power lifting for 15 years
and I over muscle things.I do see fluid on the stencil when
I put the pad to the stencil.I think it is a combo of not taping it down tight enough,to much fluid,and to much pressure.
Some leasson learned.Great input,If I did not have this forum
I would be scratching my head,with problems.
Thanks, maybe I will turn into a knife maker some day;)
 
Nathan, when you are ready to etch, stencil taped etc., wet the pad on the handpiece(you want it wet to the carbon core), and then blot it on a folded paper towel. You don't have to press hard, use medium pressure, just blot down the towel till it barely makes a wet spot, about 8-12 times. Now you are ready to go. Turn the etching machine to 1/2 power, if you have that feature, and place the pad on the stencil, lightly. You have to press a little, but it doesn't have to be hard, you should be able to either hear, or feel the current passing into the blade. just go three seconds and lift for a couple. Repeat that for about 15-18 times. Switch your settings and go for the black oxide now. Same time and pressure, but you only have to do that about 8-12 times.
Short stencil life can come about because of either poor quality stencils, too much power, or a combination of the two.

Edited to add; Nathan, are you using stencils that you make on the typewriter? If so, they are only temporary stencils, made to use to put a customers name on the blade once, then thrown away.

IMG also has different grades of stencil material, if you are using stencils they made, and if it is the stencils burning out that soon, you might want to call them and complain about it. They would probably replace them with a better grade.
 
Mike
IMG is making them for me,Pat said I should get about 10 to 15 good burns if my stencil is cleaned good.My etcher is made by Ron Cailborne it is very fast burning when he sent me the etcher he also sent some MSC 1 etching fluid.IMG sent me some pratice stencils I used the MSC fluid Ron sent me on a scrape piece of D2 and I got a great crisp burn.When I got my stencils made up I got the fluid IMG
recommend.I don't think it is as good as MSC,do you know were I can get some MSC fluid from?
 
You can get it from MSC, but they have a minimum order.
http://www.markingmethods.com/

I think I would call these people. They are the originators of the whole metal etching process to begin with, and MSC just spun off from them. In fact MSC used to get their good green stencil material from Lectroetch.
Lectroetch is very easy to deal with, and there is not much they don't know about the process.
http://www.lectroetch.com/
 
Nathan, I just reread your initial post. Some fuzzyness is normal on almost all etching. It gets cleaned up by handrubbing over it(like you did), or buffing, if that was the base finish.

As to etching a bead blasted finish, it's like I said above, or you can simply etch your logo deep (no black), and just bead blast over it.
It will show up, just not black. The only other way is to just be real careful and etch with a barely damp pad. One maker told me he doesn't go real deep when he etches after blasting, he scrubs the blade real good also, after.:confused:
 
When and if I work with S30v I will beadbalst it or put a stone wash finish on it.I like the idea of etching with out blackning it
that would be neat looking.I think my problem was to much etching fluid.I will see in the next couple weeks.I will be making some more knives,now if I can get some good quality photos I will be in business;)
 
When I tested the stencils from all those companies a while back, I found that IMG stencils are a bit more "transparent" to the electricity than most of the others with the exception of TSU in Boston. This indicated that, with a lot more current getting through the stencil, shorter "strike" times were necessary, and as has been stated, less electrolyte. The greater transparency causes a lot more heat buildup if held long, boils the electrolyte, and creates more fuzziness. With a fixed-voltage system like Ron's, and a powerful unit at that, decrease strike time, increase the "off" time. IMG makes some very nice stencils, but my experiments suggested you have to keep the "juice" down or it'll burn it.
I would also recommend getting a cheapo sonicator (about $20, jewelry cleaner) to clean your stencils. It will cut down on the amount of abrasive rubbing necessary to clean it, and both extend stencil life and maintain the quality of the boundary of your etch logo longer. It really lifts the oxidized metal out of the pores, and a slight swipe with a soft wet cloth or the little brush that comes with a lot of em and you have a clean stencil.

Nice dog, BTW, Nathan. I have a 20 month old AmStaff male. After always having German Shorthairs and Dobies, this independent little sucker is the joy in our life, totally different from the other breeds I've had. Very loving and wanting to please, and "almost controllable" with tone of voice alone (meaning, if he's gonna mind at all, talking to him will get it done or it ain't gonna happen! :D ). He's never been smacked as a "training aid". 72 pounds of unbelievably dense muscle. Rough and tumble, without being mean. My forearms are covered with scars from playing with him, but you can tell it's play, because he can just crush a rawhide bone with one bite when he wants. These are great dogs, and he's a great buddy! Silly dog is a shophound, too. He'll sit right inder the grinder if you let him, and right under the anvil. A little bit of slag falling on him doesn't seem to bother him a bit, the bonehead! Smartest dog I've had, 'cept for those shop proclivities. :) He just wants to be close. Helps, too, that the human debris here in the 'hood is scared s**less of these dogs!
 
Mike
You brought up a point about boiling.the fluid after I lift the pad of the stencil is boiling.There are many leads pointing toward me using to much fluild and hold my strikes to long.Rons machine is hot
and I am gong to back off on every thing.Strike, hold time,fluid,and pressure.
Mike the pit bull in the picture is my male named Solomon,he is an ox 97 pounds of hardcore muscle,with jaws like a gator,he can crack a cow knuckle bone with one bit,I have watched him to it in the shop when I was hand rubbing a blade.I also have a female,that is a jeep breed bitch and she is a gamey as they come.Pits get a bad rap because off people who do not know the breed and are using them to
entertain themselves for money.My pits also listen by word of mouth
I do not think you will find a breed who bounds with it owner like pitbulls will,they truly are a noble breed of dog and it is an honor to own one.Thanks for all the input
Nathan
 
Nathan,

My God, that's a helluva boy, then, at 97 pounds. Mine won't get that big at all. Looks big on the photo. What'd you do, have him train with you on the bench?? hehe
Actually, is it an AmStaff or a true "pit", bred outside the AmStaff lines for a little more size and density. They seem to have a little more heft.

Regardless, these are wonderful dogs, and I love him dearly. Thanks for the reply.

Good luck with the etching. Seems every stencil manufacturer and every steel is different, and one is always re-inventing one's technique.
 
Mike
Sol comes from a line that dates back to the 1800
he is from a family of pit that comes from the Avants line
it is an Old Family RedNose strain,Sol is only 2 and pitbulls
are slow to mature,they are not really mature tell the age of 3
his dad is a 110 pounds,they used him as a catch dog on wild boar.
Sol is just naturaly muscley,I had to work for mine,I would like to see what he would look like if I put him in weight pulling contest.he is my buddy.:D
 
Hi, Nathan,

Thanks for sharing that about Sol. Sounds like a good buddy! Proud history, too. These bloodlines go back quite a ways from when they were bred up from English Staffordshires as farm dogs (people never realize that part, they only consider them "fighting" dogs). When the AKC AmStaffs and APBA went their separate ways, the conformation on the two diverging lines changed a bit. Rednose seem just a bit bigger by and large.

I weighed my AmStaff last night, he's a meager (by comparison) 76 pounds, and will probably top out at 80-82 I suspect. AmStaffs are smaller than pits, it seems, especially when bred for AKC conformation like Jojo was from champion lines that come out of Ruffian. (My wife gave him that name, BTW, don't blame me! It was supposed to be Mojo, but my niece and nephew snickered and said it means something different nowadays than our impression! hehe So, he's got a wuss name to live with, he doesn't seem to care!)

If anyone ever said dogs don't smile, then they haven't been around these breeds. It is what first endeared us to them, and we have found that most all those horror stories about the bully breeds are mostly due not to the animal, but to the a&&holes who raise them wrong. They are a rough and tumble dog, immensely dense and strong, and hard play usually means blood gets drawn, but not with rancor. Saturday night Jojo, me, and Nancy were roughhousing and he smacked her on the nose and broke it with his paw. Poor girl just can't hang, but she didn't whine. :)

There is nothing in this world like the love a dog bestows. Always loyal, ever your friend, wanting nothing but to get a little attention and be close to ya. He, too, is my very close buddy.

Here's a photo of my little pup:

standard.jpg


That foto's from last summer, so he's about 15 -20 pounds heavier now. I realize it's time to get some new foto's cuz this doesn't show off that rippling musculature. He's a good boy, and my constant companion. If he's not welcome somewhere, then we just don't go there.

Thanks again for sharing,I love hearing about dogs.
 
Mike
Nice looking dog,they do play rough,Sol has run his big head into mine,man does that make your eyes water.My male and female rough house together,if you did not know the breed you would think they were fighting,.They do smile at you ,they really do it when they are hot,toung hanging out,I call it the pitbull grin:D
 
Thx, Nathan.

We love it when you can say something to him and he actually breaks out in a grin.
 
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