- Joined
- Feb 26, 2002
- Messages
- 119
I have some strong feelings and thoughts about projects that are conducted using Robs name and logo with the stated purpose of benefitting his family.
This post is not directed at any one person or group of people specifically.
I am taking the time to write this before I go into work and instead of working on grad-school deadlines because it seems that things are moving really quickly and to hopefully prevent this uneasy feeling Ive gotten and gossip Ive heard when things like this have happened in the past. And because it's just the right way to approach things.
1) Its an excellent and wonderful thing that people are going to commit time, labor and $ to doing this, and folks wanting to take this on should be commended. Rob was full of an uninhibited sense of fun, energy and spirit. He would be so happy to know that others have absorbed that energy and want to channel it to help provide for his family since he can no longer.
2) Projects should be done in good taste. They should be something that Rob would have wanted and agreed with. Agreed with in many aspects from a technical perspective (is this the type of knife that Rob thought could do the job?) Agreed with from a cool perspective (would Rob have thought that this tee-shirt or coffee mug or whatever was cool? Or dorky? )
All this is very subjective.
Rob's wife Christine Simonich should of course be the _final_ approver on these projects.
Who in the knife industry knew Rob the best and knew his opinions on stuff? It seems like his bestist-buddies were Jerry Hossom and Mick Strider / Duane Dwyer.
My perspective on this comes from:
a) Rob was one of the awesome men who made the time to help me with getting my hideaway knife from the final design to something that people can order. Both in being a finishing artist as well as giving me lots of advice on who to work with and who to avoid for whatever reason in the industry. Rob described Jerry, Mick, and Duane as his brothers. One of the changes Rob told me last week that he wanted me to make sure to add to his gunner grip page, in addition to the new pics, was thanking Duane Dwyer for helping Rob secure the military contract on his Gunner Grips.
b) From working with Rob on a couple of other projects like maintaining his website and one project that has not yet reached fruition.
So while Christine should be of course be the final approver, I think a couple others should be in the approver loop others with whom Rob was closest and who knew him best.
3) Projects should be conducted with fiscal transparency.
a) The activity of any bank accounts or paypal accounts that are set up to receive $ for the Simonich family should be looked at by an independent 3rd person. This is NOT a statement about trust. It is a statement about how charitable efforts should be conducted and best business practices.
b) Saying All proceeds will go to the Simonich family is MEANINGLESS.
That says **nothing** about what Robs family would ever realize, if anything, from the project.
Why does that not have meaning?
Because proceeds mean profits. Profit calculations include subtracting out Costs. Profit = Sales $ (aka revenue) - Costs (aka expenses)
Because costs can include a lot of things.
The problem is best described by example:
Harold the knifemaker wants to make quantity 50 of a certain knife design to benefit Robs family. He passes the design by a couple others in the industry who were close to Rob and they and Christine give it a thumbs-up from a Would Rob Agree with this? perspective.
All 50 sell.
Time to write the check.
What expenses did Harold incur? Harold decides the expenses of the project included 2 new belt wheels, a machinists salary for the 2 days, belts, long distance phone calls charges to his project $30 / hour for his time, a flight to Montana to delivery the check in person, etc. So the Simonich family *could* end out realizing very little from a significant amount of income, and a lot less than what the knife buyers impression of what the family would be obtaining from his or her purchase.
What if Harold asks Christine is it OK if I deduct these expenses? *Of course* she is going to say yes. She has already told me she does not want to ask for donations for just the family, and had me edit that out of the note from me on Robs website.
So what is the ethical way for Harold to make a statement about a project like this that keeps things on the up-and-up and doesnt put anyone in an awkward situation?
So that a potential customer can know approximately how much of what the purchase price will end out with Robs family?
Either:
1) $100 (or, At least $100) for every knife sold will be donated to the Simonich family. That statement is clear, transparent, and auditable.
*or*
2) All sales $ after steel, belts, and heat-treating costs will be donated to the Simonich family.
And then at the conclusion of the project, or every once in a while, as checks are getting written to the Simonich family, a 3rd party audits whats going on.
Not conducting charitable efforts this way is ethically gray.
There was some rock group, Nine Inch Nails perhaps (?), who signed a contract based on a % of profits (instead of a % of Sales aka revenue) with a record company, and they received very little if anything from the sales of that album.
Also please note:
Saying $100 of each knife sold will go to the Simonich family also leaves room for the person undertaking the effort to (technically speaking) profit somewhat from the project.
Others disagree, but I dont see a problem with that at all.
Margins in the custom-knifemaking world are small when you honestly account for all expenses, both fixed and variable. Theres not much room for error and paying the mortgage, health insurance, electric bill, etc.
Scenario: A talented knifemaker with a good idea who wants to implement it to help the Simonich family but otherwise __could not__ unless he profited somewhat over the hard costs of the project to pay his own bills with Well, I think it would be a shame for that project to not happen.
Again, its a shades-of-gray thing. How much should someone profit from a project described as a benefit for the Simonich family? Well, gee, I dont know, something reasonable.
But what I *do* know is that if the terms are stated clearly, I as a buyer can make a decision about what project I will support through the purchase of the knife, tee-shirt, etc.
Now lets Cowboy Up, capture some of Robs energy and spirit, help his family, and have some fun doing it.
FrontSight
This post is not directed at any one person or group of people specifically.
I am taking the time to write this before I go into work and instead of working on grad-school deadlines because it seems that things are moving really quickly and to hopefully prevent this uneasy feeling Ive gotten and gossip Ive heard when things like this have happened in the past. And because it's just the right way to approach things.
1) Its an excellent and wonderful thing that people are going to commit time, labor and $ to doing this, and folks wanting to take this on should be commended. Rob was full of an uninhibited sense of fun, energy and spirit. He would be so happy to know that others have absorbed that energy and want to channel it to help provide for his family since he can no longer.
2) Projects should be done in good taste. They should be something that Rob would have wanted and agreed with. Agreed with in many aspects from a technical perspective (is this the type of knife that Rob thought could do the job?) Agreed with from a cool perspective (would Rob have thought that this tee-shirt or coffee mug or whatever was cool? Or dorky? )
All this is very subjective.
Rob's wife Christine Simonich should of course be the _final_ approver on these projects.
Who in the knife industry knew Rob the best and knew his opinions on stuff? It seems like his bestist-buddies were Jerry Hossom and Mick Strider / Duane Dwyer.
My perspective on this comes from:
a) Rob was one of the awesome men who made the time to help me with getting my hideaway knife from the final design to something that people can order. Both in being a finishing artist as well as giving me lots of advice on who to work with and who to avoid for whatever reason in the industry. Rob described Jerry, Mick, and Duane as his brothers. One of the changes Rob told me last week that he wanted me to make sure to add to his gunner grip page, in addition to the new pics, was thanking Duane Dwyer for helping Rob secure the military contract on his Gunner Grips.
b) From working with Rob on a couple of other projects like maintaining his website and one project that has not yet reached fruition.
So while Christine should be of course be the final approver, I think a couple others should be in the approver loop others with whom Rob was closest and who knew him best.
3) Projects should be conducted with fiscal transparency.
a) The activity of any bank accounts or paypal accounts that are set up to receive $ for the Simonich family should be looked at by an independent 3rd person. This is NOT a statement about trust. It is a statement about how charitable efforts should be conducted and best business practices.
b) Saying All proceeds will go to the Simonich family is MEANINGLESS.
That says **nothing** about what Robs family would ever realize, if anything, from the project.
Why does that not have meaning?
Because proceeds mean profits. Profit calculations include subtracting out Costs. Profit = Sales $ (aka revenue) - Costs (aka expenses)
Because costs can include a lot of things.
The problem is best described by example:
Harold the knifemaker wants to make quantity 50 of a certain knife design to benefit Robs family. He passes the design by a couple others in the industry who were close to Rob and they and Christine give it a thumbs-up from a Would Rob Agree with this? perspective.
All 50 sell.
Time to write the check.
What expenses did Harold incur? Harold decides the expenses of the project included 2 new belt wheels, a machinists salary for the 2 days, belts, long distance phone calls charges to his project $30 / hour for his time, a flight to Montana to delivery the check in person, etc. So the Simonich family *could* end out realizing very little from a significant amount of income, and a lot less than what the knife buyers impression of what the family would be obtaining from his or her purchase.
What if Harold asks Christine is it OK if I deduct these expenses? *Of course* she is going to say yes. She has already told me she does not want to ask for donations for just the family, and had me edit that out of the note from me on Robs website.
So what is the ethical way for Harold to make a statement about a project like this that keeps things on the up-and-up and doesnt put anyone in an awkward situation?
So that a potential customer can know approximately how much of what the purchase price will end out with Robs family?
Either:
1) $100 (or, At least $100) for every knife sold will be donated to the Simonich family. That statement is clear, transparent, and auditable.
*or*
2) All sales $ after steel, belts, and heat-treating costs will be donated to the Simonich family.
And then at the conclusion of the project, or every once in a while, as checks are getting written to the Simonich family, a 3rd party audits whats going on.
Not conducting charitable efforts this way is ethically gray.
There was some rock group, Nine Inch Nails perhaps (?), who signed a contract based on a % of profits (instead of a % of Sales aka revenue) with a record company, and they received very little if anything from the sales of that album.
Also please note:
Saying $100 of each knife sold will go to the Simonich family also leaves room for the person undertaking the effort to (technically speaking) profit somewhat from the project.
Others disagree, but I dont see a problem with that at all.
Margins in the custom-knifemaking world are small when you honestly account for all expenses, both fixed and variable. Theres not much room for error and paying the mortgage, health insurance, electric bill, etc.
Scenario: A talented knifemaker with a good idea who wants to implement it to help the Simonich family but otherwise __could not__ unless he profited somewhat over the hard costs of the project to pay his own bills with Well, I think it would be a shame for that project to not happen.
Again, its a shades-of-gray thing. How much should someone profit from a project described as a benefit for the Simonich family? Well, gee, I dont know, something reasonable.
But what I *do* know is that if the terms are stated clearly, I as a buyer can make a decision about what project I will support through the purchase of the knife, tee-shirt, etc.
Now lets Cowboy Up, capture some of Robs energy and spirit, help his family, and have some fun doing it.
FrontSight
