Eureka!!! Casting shop tip.

Joined
Jun 27, 1999
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804
I apologize in advance for the long-winded discussion, but I think it could be helpful to others trying to cast.
I've been working on casting nonferrous metals for some time. I have my forge and a furnace made from the plans in Dave Gingerys book series "How to build a metal shop from scrap" by Lindsay publications. Check eBay, they're there. My furnace is made from a 55 gallon drum, rather than the 5 gallon that he suggests. I like to have more power available if I need it.
My project that I've been working on lately is bronze. Aluminum is easy. I've melted many, many pounds of aluminum. I've melted several ounces of brass, but I didn't like what the zinc did, and I really needed bronze for some other projects. The real reason is that you can forge bronze, you can't forge brass. It crumbles under the hammer.
I decided on a 9.5-10% ratio of tin, mostly because it made the math easy, and it seems to be the median for the period of items that I want to reproduce. I took 5lbs of copper cable that someone gave me for the use of my shop, and 1/2lbs of tin ingots purchases off of eBay, and cut them all into pieces that would fit into my largest crucible. It's around a #10. I should have used the #5, but it's too late for that now. I set aside these items, the crucible, two sets of long tongs, my stainless stirrer, a stainless hook(long), and about 4 gallons of casting sand on my ad-lib casting table. It's some aluminum shelving with a 1 1/2" lip, inverted. I also set aside two bags of Kingsford briquettes. (Don't panic, this furnace is made for them, read the book.)
I filled the furnace with briquettes and set it afire, then started working on tempering my sand, since it had been sitting in a bucket for a year and a half. It was pretty dried out. I rammed up the flask somewhere in there, too, but I don't remember when. The form was a simple 2" sphere, using a 2" styrofoam ball from Wal-Mart, with a 1" sprue. I put some ingot molds in the sand with the bottom of a cup for the excess.
When I had a good bed of coals, I put the crucible in, already filled with the copper. I kept the tin set aside, since its melting point is MUCH lower than the copper, and it would slow the copper from melting by insulating it from the heat. I let the crucible warm up to the ambient heat of the BBQ from hell, then turned on the blower, slowly ramping it up.
After many adjustments of fuel and air, I reached what I knew to be well beyond the melting point of copper, yet my cables were still sticking up at me like a hundred middle fingers, mocking my efforts. My crucible has no lid, and the lid of my furnace is pretty high from where it sits, so I thought that maybe the heat needed was being radiated away from the copper out the top, so I put a firebrick on top of it. This obviously helped, from the color of things, but still no liquid. I reasoned that the oxidization layer on the outside of the copper may be holding it together. This happens in Al all the time. All you have to do is scratch the surface a bit, and it starts to flow. I tried this with the copper, and it just reoxidized. I could swear that I heard the blower laughing at me. I had been rotating the crucible in the coals to keep the heat even, as it has a tendency to heat up the tuyere area faster. I did this a final time, and the handle broke free. We had reached welding temps, and still no molten copper. Just to make sure I was committed, I added the tin. I know, I should only do that once the copper was molten. I was ready to try anything, and it was easy to rationalize to myself that the tin would conduct the heat to the copper at this point. It melted just like a popsicle, before it even reached the crucible. Then I remembered that foundries use fluxes. I've never heard it said why, and I never remember steps if I don't know why, but I was getting desperate, and racking my brain produced this.
I dropped a handful (about 1/2 cup) of Borax into the mix. Raw Borax, not anhydrous. I watched it foam up and coat the copper. Then I watched the copper melt. Just that quick. The parts that hadn't been touched by the borax had to be pushed into the pool or fall into it, as physics dictated. I was ready to run naked through the streets, I was so happy.
Then the crucible broke and I bronzed my shoes.
 
Sounds like a learning experince Oz! Why don't you melt the bronze in your forge? Would it hurt a forge or heat treat oven to melt bronze, aluminum, or lead ??
 
I don't have a crucible that would fit in my forge for bronze. I turn my forge on its side to melt Al in a ladle. The furnace just holds a LOT more. I don't think it would hurt anything in an oven or forge unless you had a spill, but I wouldn't do lead, since it only takes 400 or so to melt lead, I don't see any reason to not use a hot plate.
 
:cool: Cool!:cool:

A # 10 crucibule full of molten bronze is something to behold! Here is a pic of my backyard foundry pouring bronze from a #8. I use a natural gas fired "beer keg" furnace...max temp 2300 f. Knife content?.....uhh...sorry...I just got excited when I read the thread.

pour.jpg


Take care,
Rob
 
Great story, Oz! When I was learning to centrifigul cast, we were taught to put a pinch of borax flux in the crucible. Rob, that is a very cool picture. What were you casting?:)
 
Trust me folks, this thread is relevant, but it will take some 'splaining...

I remember some time ago, on the Discovery Channel, there was an interesting program about a mummified body was found in the ice on the Austrian-Italian border. Anyways, I've always enjoyed archaeology, so I took notice. According to the program, after analysis, the mummy was calculated to be 5,000+ years old (ie Stone Age.) One interesting artifact was his copper headed axe. So this find may someday lead to a redefinition of the Copper Age!

Further into the program (and I'm going on memory here) Forensic analysis of his hair showed raised levels of arsenic. So the forensic pathologists deduced that he (the mummified individual) must have been involved in the smelting of copper, because arsenic is (or was) a common byproduct.

Sounds scary. If you're working on melting copper/brass/bronze, a guess proper ventilation would be an absolute must. Can anyone on the forum verify that arsenic (or anything else that's toxic) is a byproduct in this case?
 
Wow Rob, that looks like one fine set up!! Wish we lived closer to each other, a day of floor sweeping sure would be worth a day of watching you work! Is that crucuble metal? Where can I buy one like that?

Glen, I saw that same show and it was fascinating, both from the archeological stand point and the neotribalish smelting and casting part. The gent's name is Otcey,pronounce Oughtsea, aka The Ice Man. Amazing how he could lay there for 5000 years and be in such great shape, even the tattoos he had were intact.After reading what you mentioned about the arsenic and other possible toxic gases involved in smelting, I guess I'll save my oven for heat treating and build a small propane smelter for casting.
 
Arsenic is a byproduct of smelting, yes, but smelting is ore refinement. I'm using pure, elemental copper. No arsenic to be had. I was a bit worried about that myself to start with. Interesting tangent, the greek god Hephestus (Vulcan to the Romans) was always portrayed as being disabled in a way that was textbook for long-term arsenic exposure. One of my sources (The New World of Copper, 1968) theorized that this was in remembrance of the original smiths that worked bronze, and did their own smelting. I mentioned in a previous post that many early bronzes contained arsenic instead of tin. Scary to think that that was a norm. Think they used knives made from this bronze to eat with?
Rob, your setup is awesome. I'm all kinds of jealous. I hope to be good enough at it someday to justify such a kit.
L6, the best prices I've found for any foundry stuff online, purchased new, is at http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/ . They have all kinds of stuff.
 
Yep! Ditto on the arsenic from smelting/reducing ore. I use silicon bronze ingots (everdur) for sculptor work. In the picture, I may have been pouring some "garden bells" or figurines for lawn and garden ornaments.

Oz, foundry work is like knifemaking in the sense that you learn with experience and aquire resources as your progress. My crucible furnace cost was probably less than $150. I used a beer keg ($20 deposit) for the shell and the rest was for refractory.

L6, the crucibles are sized based on weight of aluminum when full....so a #8 holds about 8 lbs of molten aluminum....but it becomes a hefty 24lbs of molten bronze! ...a #10 is 10 and 30 lbs respectively. Do not cut corners on crucibles! A broken crucible can be a free invite from the ER! The crucibles that I use are " clay-graphite". They are general purpose types, made from some kinda fire-clay with a graphite shell.

For some seriously scary/exciting stuff... I had a 10" cupola for melting iron. They are coke fired continous melters that can output a few tons per hour. When under blast, they are just awesome! Unbelievable amounts of energy from such a small setup! It scared the he!! out of the neighbors so I got rid of it :eek:....(it scared me too!)

The possiblities from metal casting are endless. Maybe a small permanant mold for casting aluminum folder frames, or scales, how about your own lost wax bronze guards, pommels...thumbstuds..etc.
Plus, you make make some really cool tools from your own castings.

Oz, go for it! keep us posted with your progress! I have tons of resources here in Columbus, as well as books, and some experience. If you run into a dead end, let me know, I would be glad to help if I can. One thought, if you start casting your homebrewed bronze, drop me a line. I have some phosphorous shot that will help the fluidity for picking up better detail....I'd be glad to send you some. It takes just a pinch per pound.

BTW, I still have a few 100 lbs of some very high quality refractorys....that I've been trying to give away to anyone that would come and get it. It is too heavy and awkward to ship.

Be safe! ..and have fun,
Rob
 
Originally posted by rfrink

I had a 10" cupola for melting iron. They are coke fired continous melters that can output a few tons per hour. When under blast, they are just awesome! Unbelievable amounts of energy from such a small setup! It scared the he!! out of the neighbors

Rob, you must be an extremely interesting person to have for a neighbor! Not many folks have their own private blast furnace in their yard.

:D
 
Yer killing me here, Rob! I've been dying to get some better refractory for my next forge and a smaller furnace. I will absolutely take you up on any help you can give on the next melt that I do, thanks for the offer! I get very little shop time these days, so I should be able to read up quite a bit before I give it another shot. I got another two or three books on the subject, too.
I took the 2" ball attempt and ground it smooth on one half of the dome and the flat, then buffed the whole thing. The color is incredible. I expected to have some separation of metals because I wasn't sure how well I had stirred it, but it seems to have come out OK after all. So, so far, I have a really killer paperweight. I'll post a pic one of these days, if I don't forge it into a dagger first. If I do, I'll DEFINITELY post a pic.
 
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