Ever Been Challenged?

H

Hesparus

Joined
Oct 31, 2004
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Has anyone ever been challenged by a police officer regarding carrying any kind of knife (specifically fixed blades)? A few years ago I was stopped and to make a long story short they searched me and I told them about my spyderco naitive which they took away and asked me why I had it. I said, "it's useful" and the guy nodded and they gave it back to me after. This was a very scary situation for me (I was only 17 at the time) and I probably would have crapped myself if I had been carrying a fixed blade. Granted, I didn't get any hassle for my knife but I figure it's a lot easier to justify a folder than it is a fixed blade. On top of that, I don't think most cops anywhere are well versed in knife laws so they might get the wrong impression. Do you think it would help to carry a copy of the law around?

- Chris
 
I have a very similar situation to tell except that it involves me being stopped at gunpoint and forced to lay in the grass for several hours until a friend of mine's father (who is a EOD guy with the US Postal Inspector) showed up and read the officers the riot act. Turns out that the municapality I was living in at the time was subcontracting sheriffs from the county. The county was using that as an oppurtunity to pawn off all of the officers they had with records of violence or complaints against them to my town... that ended pretty quick after I filed a formal complaint with IA and the lieutenant in charge of overseeing my town. Ah, but anyways, knives.

I was carrying a medium sized spyderco- can't remember the model at the moment, no serrations and voluntarily told the Officers so as soon as I was out of the van and made to lay on the ground. I was told that the knife was illegal not because of blade size or because I was under 18 but because of the LOCKING MECHANISM. When I told them that it was a safety feature the only reply I recieved was that it was not a safety feature and instead was evidence of a knife meant for fighting. Obviously, these guys knew that this was a load of crap as they willingly gave me the knife back at the end of the ordeal. To me, this was just proof that most officers know little to nothing about knife law or that many simply don't care.

I often wonder what would have happened to us that night if a federal officer hadn't shown up and told the main investigating officer, and I quote, "you had better go back to school, son."

The worst part is this. After an investigation by IA and the lieutenant I mentioned above it became apparent that 3 of the officers on the scene were not on duty, one was arrested himself on drugs violations and two seperate officers filed conflicting reports as to why we were stopped at gunpoint in the first place. One of them said that people matching our descriptions (two white juveniles and a black juvenile, imagine that) were knocking over mailboxes while the other said that we were doing donuts in a police officers yard. Neither of these things are anywhere near truth.

For a long time, as a result of this, I feared and distrusted LEOs of all kinds. I saw them all as people who were liable to abuse their power at a whim and went out of my way to avoid them all. This was true up until the day that I got a call that my father's house alarm was going off and I went over to turn it off. As I showed up there I heard loud footsteps banging up the staircase and immediately headed back towards my car. As I did this, two deputies showed up and voluntarily entered the house with guns drawn and arrested the thiefs.

After that day I decided that it is a shame that the behavior of a few bad apples would so disillusion me to the LE professionals in general and also that there are many LEOs worthy of the utmost respect and courtesy. Also, mostly as the result of my complaints the process of subcontracting deputies began to involve something of a background check of the officers themselves so that no more abusive or otherwise corrupt officials were pawned off on outlying municipalities.

I realize that this isnt just about knives but I thought that the story was more interesting when told in a broader scope.
 
I've had city cops (San Antonio, early 80s) ask me about my Buck 110 which I (obviously) used for work. Basically, I was at a downtown bus stop when they walked up and asked me if I knew the knife I was wearing was illegal being an 'over 3.5" lock blade'. I declared it not so and demonstrated that it was actually closer to 3.25" due to the tip having gone missing. They grumbled a bit and said not to wear it publically. I removed it from my belt and pocketed it, and they wandered off.
Another incident when I was about 12 or so, me and my buds were 'heading out' to the nearby creek armed to the teeth with the usual assortment of weaponry (BB guns, bows, slingshots etc) and I was wearing the Camillus M3 fighting knife my dad brought me from 'nam. Cop pulled up, asked us where we were headed. We conversed. He told us have to fun and wished he could join us 'in the big war' and rolled away. Of course that was back in the late 60s and we were living on the frontier of town at that time. I have no idea, given a similar setup, what would have been the outcome today.
So, other than a few expected 'holds' of reasonably sized folders at sporting events and courthouses, I get no trouble. But then I AM a very polite and nice guy who just don't look like I want trouble. :D
 
most likely tree stumps, old cans, and squirrels (if they're too slow), wouldn't you think?
 
Hell. We were after rattlers, mice and field rats which abounded at an old deserted farm about a mile from my house. Several kills we dragged home were nearly 7 feet long and thicker than my arm (is now) and weighed close to 20lbs. :eek: My mom had mixed emotions. I used to have a shoebox full of rattles. Of course there were the occasional birds and rabbits and squirrels and fence posts and bottles...
I regret the bottles. They had been dumped in a ditch by the farmer since the turn of the century. We likely busted several thousand dollars in collectible antique bottles. :( :( I actually still have a few I kept all these 40 years.
 
I believe most LEOs aren't hip to the various nuances of knife laws. Whether they should be or not is subject to another debate on another forum. How can one reasonably expect an officer to memorize the countless ordinances in a given municipality? One could argue that weapons laws might have a higher priority. Nevertheless, I have heard many stories like the ones above. I have tried to get a definitive understanding of my own city's laws(Los Angeles), but there is some vagueness. So, I carry what I believe to be legal, and take my chances. But when I see a cop in line near me at the Starbuck's, I get nervous, and I put my forearm over my Buck 110, or the little fixed-blade on my belt. It's a shame to think so, but many places in this land bear little resemblance to the free country it ostensibly once was.
 
I was stopped one time not too long ago by a deputy sherrif who didn't like the looks of the Cold Steel Trailmaster on my belt. He said that FL law forbade me to carry a knife that big, and that it could only have a blade length of 4" or less. I told him that was regarding common pocket knives, and that there was no law against carrying a fixed-blade hunting knife. He insisted that it was too big and he said he was going to have to confiscate it. I told him if he did, I had a half-dozen dirty miami lawyers on the other end of my cell-phone who would have his badge by the end of the day (a bluff, but sounded good). I then told him if he had a personal problem with me carrying the knife, he could take off his badge, put his gun and mace on the ground, and if he could then physically take my knife away from me, he could have it. I guess the prospect of this didn't sound to good to him, because he turned around and walk away without saying another word.
 
Possibly, but in this case, I was withing my legal rights. The cops around here are real jerks. This one knew I was in my legal rights, but didn't think I knew it. They like to push you around, in these parts, and excercise authority they don't have.

I can pretty much guarantee you if I was in my legal rights in Texas, they wouldn't have had my knife or arrested me. That's the point...I was legal. People don't normally get arrested when they don't do anything illegal.
 
I think most cops around here would have let a judge decide. The knife may be legal, but failure to obey and offering to fight jes' don't set well with these good ol' boys. Guaranteed.
 
Not really. If I didn't do anything illegal, they have no right to arrest me. If they do, it is false arrest, and they get into trouble for that. Failure to co-operate? I do not have to cooperate with anyone, LEO or otherwise, if he is making unjust claims that do not follow the law. LEO are paid to uphold the current laws, not make their own.

And which good ol' boys are you refering to? The ones in Houston where I spent 5 years of my life, or the ones in the Dallas area where I spent 3 years, or the ones in Burkeburnette where I spent another 3 years? None of those good ol' boy LEO's tried to ever arrest me for me excersising my legal rights. So tell me, why would a Texas good ol' boy LEO arrest me for obeying the law and not doing anything illegal? LEO's normally arrest people who break the law, not the other way around.

But then, that points back to the moral of my story. Just because a cop says something doesn't mean it's the gospel. If you know what the law is and know your rights, the LEO's can't push you around. LEO's are not God, they have laws they have to follow too.
 
How smart would it have been if the cop would have taken you up on your offer to fight? What would have been your gain, even if you had won?
 
I have had only one incident; about 15-20 years ago, while working as an insurance investigator, I was performaing a background check and had to enter the federal courthouse to check bankruptcy records. I made that trip about once or twice per week, and the officers at the front desk knew me by sight. Lo and behold, as I entered on that fateful day, there was this strange beeping noise; yep, a metal detector had been installed immediately inside the door. They smiled, and instructed me to empty my pockets.

OK, keys...wallet...loose change...Balisong knife - WHOAH! The "senior" officer grabbed it( it was a custom by Pacific Cutlery), carefully opened it, examined the weehawk blade, and commented to his fellow officer, "Hey, lookit this!" (As I tried to figure out which local attorney could get me out of the slammer the fastest :( ). He then closed and latched it, handed it and my other belongings back, and said, "Have a nice day." I proceeded in, did my duty, and left. Next trip, though, I left the balisong in the car.

My, how things have changed, huh? :grumpy:
 
Weapons laws in the Cleveland area tend to be restricitve, so when I moved to Lakewood (a densly populated western suburb) last year, I checked the local knife ordinances. I found that it is illegal to carry a knife with a blade over 2 1/2 inches long, that has a locking mechanism, or that is opened using any kind of spring mechanism. Nonetheless, my every day carry is a Kershaw Leek with a 3 inch blade, liner lock, and Speed Safe opening mechanism. I use the pocket clip, so the knife is always visable. So far no one has even commented on it. It probably helps that I am in my 40's and don't look like I'm about to commit mayhem.

The owner of the local knife shop said that the Lakewood police rarely enforce the knife law. He said that the law is mostly intended to keep kids from carrying knives, and so he doubted that I would have any trouble carrying a Leek. I hope he is right, but I still feel a bit nervous whenever a police officer passes by.

Given the number of states that allow the concealed carrying of handguns (Ohio is now one), it is ridiculous that knife laws are still so restrictive: legaly, I can't carry my Leek, but I can pack a hand cannon like a Desert Eagle! Unfortunately, knife owners do not have an advocacy group, like the NRA, that can help change things. Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Been really lucky (looking for wood to knock on) thus far.
My only real 'interaction' was when I was working for a real estate firm while I was in college, I used to go in & out of the Federal Courthouse in Norfolk & would leave the Kershaw Amphibian that I carried in my courier's case w/ the guards @ the door. They knew me & never gave me any hassles.
I did give a necker to a friend who's NYPD to carry @ work. Does that count?
 
As a matter of fact, Redtail, knife owners do have an advocacy group like the NRA. It's the American Knife and Tool Institute (AKTI, www.akti.org). They are not nearly as powerful or radical as the NRA, due to lack of publicity, but they are out there fighting for our rights. Be sure to make your donation.

- Chris
 
I don't really think this point is worthy of discussion, but the term "radical" can mean any deviation from the norm. Since the views of the NRA are not the norm (I'm not making any judgements here, they're just different from what most people believe) they can properly be called "radical". Either way, I said that the AKTI is LESS radical than the NRA, which isn't the same as calling the NRA radical.
This is just the way I see it. I have very little emotional investment in my statement so I'm not going to bother arguing about it.

- Chris
 
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