ever forge tang-first?

[Alan Molstad]

I got a bunch of ball bearings.
The problem is that they each are just a little over one inch in diameter.
I welded a bearing to a section of 1/2 inch round bar stock, but the problem I always have is that I forge the tip of the knife first. And by the time Im doing the tang the knife falls off the bar stock.

I tried to be very careful many times but I always had a problem doing the tang and keeping the blade welded to the bar...

Well today, just for a test, I welded the little 1-inch ball bearing to the bar stock, but then forged the thin tang first, then I just banged the body of the blade out normally.

I noticed one thing that was different, This time with the tang finished first I dint end up heating the tip an extra 20 times as I made the tang. Before this I always felt I was over-heating the main body of the blade too many times just to get the tang forged last.

When I had forged the main body of the blade, I cut it free of the bar stock and then forged a nice tip.

I also noticed that forging the tip last on this bearing steel was way more easy when the tang was already finished. The thinness of the tang and body of the blade helped speed up the heating of the tip area.

Before I always had trouble getting the tip forged correct due to the huge thickness of the rest of the unformed parts of the bearing behind the tip I was working on first.

Anyway.... that is what I did to day.

"Tang-first".... if no one else thought of doing it that way, I get credit! LOL

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

Got tongs?

 

[Alan Molstad]

Got tongs?

Not really.
I got a channelock,,,and a visegrips

The problem I have most of the time when I forge the tang last is that as Im starting to bang on the billet where the tang will be, I weaken the weld to the iron barstock and the whole thing starts to flip around and wobble all over the place.

The thinner the tang starts to get, the more hard it seems to keep control of everything from flying around.

I did the tang first with this new knife and it was way more easy to keep the blade under good control.
Then when it came time to forge the tip area I just cut the whole knife free of the iron bar and was able to use the visegrips to hold onto the tang while I forged the tip.

The other thing that was better this last time was the way I didnt have to keep heating and heating the tip area in the forge just because i wanted to forge the last of the tang.
The tip and it's important cutting areas were only heated for their own forging after the tang and middle of the blade were about finished...

 

[son_of_bluegrass]

I usually do the tang first. Initially I did that to fit a knife i was making for me to my hand without having to worry about not having enough material to get what I wanted - a 2" handle with a 5" blade looks funny, a 2" blade with a 5" handle looks purpose built.

ron

 

[Alan Molstad]

a 2" handle with a 5" blade looks funny, a 2" blade with a 5" handle looks purpose built.

ron

Ron, now that you bring up that topic....

I was grinding the knife outlines, when I felt the blade looked a bit too short.

From the tip of the knife to the place where the brass guard starts was 3&1/2 inches long.
Now this is going to be a outdoors knife, meant for field use, but not a big chopper type knife.

So I fired up the forge and wacked the tip area a bit more to make it thiner but wider and longer...

If there was a average length to a sub-tang field knife, what would it be?
is about 4inches sound right?
5?
6inches?

I was never sure today what I was aiming for...
I dont want it too long. I used to make these monster long knives that people just always said were fun to look at, but now really what a guy needs to use in the field with a downed deer......

What is your views?

 

[A C Richards]

I almost always for my tangs first. This is how i learned. I did it mainly because it is easier holding onto the tang than trying to hold the blade. I had a limited nuber of tongs to i forged the tang from the bar to fit my tongs. I agree that you prevent a lot of extra heating of the blade. Just need to figure out how much material you need for the size blade you desire when finished.

Chuck

 

[jdm61]

The formula tha I alwasy use for determining how much steel i need for the tang is the "way too much'' method i heard one smith say that he roughs out the blade profile, then he cuts the knifeoff of the bar and does the tang and then goes back and does the bevels and finsihes the balde. If nothing else, that eliminates having to forge or grind out those nasty little hickeys that the tongs can inflict on the tip area.