With all the threads I've seen concerning liner lock failures, I tend to steer clear and favor the tried and true lockbacks. Got me thinking - has anyone, in use or in testing, ever had a failure with a name brand lockback (Buck, Spyd, CS, BM, etc.)? Please name the knife and describe the incident if you have.
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Ever have a lockback fail ?
- Thread starter RH
- Start date
RH,
Yes, I have had a lockback "fail". I don't remember which brand it was, but it was not a cheapie. The problem was not the locking mechanism, though, The problem was getting metal filings into the little slot that the lock clicks into. It couldn't completely lock. Once I found the problem, a little compressed air fixed it. I have also seen a few knives that have the release positioned so that I could unintentionally unlock it with a normal grip. I have used Buck knives since before dirt, and I have never had one fail. I also have a "POS" Frost Cutlery lockback that, for some unknown reason, I really like a lot, and it has not failed in the two years I've had it. (You won't tell the Cutlery Cops that I'm harboring a Frost Cutlery product will you?)
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Dave
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If a tree falls in the forest, and there is nobody there to hear it, then don't worry about it.
Yes, I have had a lockback "fail". I don't remember which brand it was, but it was not a cheapie. The problem was not the locking mechanism, though, The problem was getting metal filings into the little slot that the lock clicks into. It couldn't completely lock. Once I found the problem, a little compressed air fixed it. I have also seen a few knives that have the release positioned so that I could unintentionally unlock it with a normal grip. I have used Buck knives since before dirt, and I have never had one fail. I also have a "POS" Frost Cutlery lockback that, for some unknown reason, I really like a lot, and it has not failed in the two years I've had it. (You won't tell the Cutlery Cops that I'm harboring a Frost Cutlery product will you?)
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Dave
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If a tree falls in the forest, and there is nobody there to hear it, then don't worry about it.
A friend gave me a Kershaw D.W.O. (a lockback) that he found on the floor at a punk club (so I have no idea how much it had been abused previously), and it consistently folds when I press fairly hard on the spine of the blade.
Fortunately, I just got a nice new Endura, so I don't have to worry about it anymore.
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Brandon Palas
http://www.funhousedigital.com
Fortunately, I just got a nice new Endura, so I don't have to worry about it anymore.
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Brandon Palas
http://www.funhousedigital.com
2 personal Spyderco Polices from years ago. Their actions were starting to develop play and they could easily be closed by a simple grasp with the hands and bending. Similar to breaking a pencil! Warranty would probably have looked into it but perhaps they were ready to retire. Don' t know.
2 others from business associates. Same Police models. But one was relatively new and the owner showed me the same "pencil breaking" routine. Yep, they "broke".
L8r,
Nakano
2 others from business associates. Same Police models. But one was relatively new and the owner showed me the same "pencil breaking" routine. Yep, they "broke".
L8r,
Nakano
- Joined
- May 2, 1999
- Messages
- 1,206
I've had them develop play, but I've never had a quality lockback fail.
I have found that often the play problem can be corrected by tightenting the bolsters together again. Pounding with something heavy can work for this, maybe someone knows a more delicate method.
Hey, uh, was there any reason to replace the lockback? I mean, in terms of strength. I've never found them to lack strength, and they used to make some real freak'n big knives with a lockback, or related clasplock variant anyway. we're talking foot long blades or longer.
I have found that often the play problem can be corrected by tightenting the bolsters together again. Pounding with something heavy can work for this, maybe someone knows a more delicate method.
Hey, uh, was there any reason to replace the lockback? I mean, in terms of strength. I've never found them to lack strength, and they used to make some real freak'n big knives with a lockback, or related clasplock variant anyway. we're talking foot long blades or longer.
I've used a vice to tighten things up and it usually worked for me. And when that doesn't work, I also introduce it to the Ford Tool.
My cynical mind tells me that probably the main reason that the liner-Locks and kin have been introduced is more to to sell more knives than any improvement in strength. These new style knives are lighter. But if they were all lockback, they would be compared to the Spydies and Buck 110. You would have to have a really special knife to justify (for me anyway) spending 3-4 times the price of those guys. And it appears to me that the new locks would be easier and less expensive to mass produce. Of course, I could be completely wrong, too.
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Dave
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If a tree falls in the forest, and there is nobody there to hear it, then don't worry about it.
My cynical mind tells me that probably the main reason that the liner-Locks and kin have been introduced is more to to sell more knives than any improvement in strength. These new style knives are lighter. But if they were all lockback, they would be compared to the Spydies and Buck 110. You would have to have a really special knife to justify (for me anyway) spending 3-4 times the price of those guys. And it appears to me that the new locks would be easier and less expensive to mass produce. Of course, I could be completely wrong, too.
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Dave
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If a tree falls in the forest, and there is nobody there to hear it, then don't worry about it.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 1998
- Messages
- 1,345
RH,
I only had one lockback fail on me and that was years ago. When I advanced from my collecting of pocket knives, lockbacks were next. A Schrade Lockback gave out on me when I was cutting through some HEAVY THICK ROPE. The lock let loose and down came the blade. Thank goodness my thumb or fingers were not in the way. Would have took them right off, that's for sure. There was alot of force that was behind that cut.
Never had any other lockbacks ever fail on me! Have many too. Buck, Spyderco, Camillus, Kershaw, Case, so on and so on. But I must say that the strongest lockback I have ever used would have to be Cold Steel's Voyager Series. These are the stongest lockbacks I know of from my experiences with using many many different ones by many different manufactures over the years.
Most name brand lockbacks are safe to use, you just need to have caution using them like with any knife, locking or non-locking.
Even though I don't like fixed blade knives, these are the safest knives to use hard.
Mark
I only had one lockback fail on me and that was years ago. When I advanced from my collecting of pocket knives, lockbacks were next. A Schrade Lockback gave out on me when I was cutting through some HEAVY THICK ROPE. The lock let loose and down came the blade. Thank goodness my thumb or fingers were not in the way. Would have took them right off, that's for sure. There was alot of force that was behind that cut.
Never had any other lockbacks ever fail on me! Have many too. Buck, Spyderco, Camillus, Kershaw, Case, so on and so on. But I must say that the strongest lockback I have ever used would have to be Cold Steel's Voyager Series. These are the stongest lockbacks I know of from my experiences with using many many different ones by many different manufactures over the years.
Most name brand lockbacks are safe to use, you just need to have caution using them like with any knife, locking or non-locking.
Even though I don't like fixed blade knives, these are the safest knives to use hard.
Mark
- Joined
- Mar 20, 1999
- Messages
- 7,497
Yep, an old Buck 110. As soon as I felt it snap I releases my hand, so no damage.
The General rule,is that any lock can fail. Only a solid piece of steel wont collapse.
Dark Nemesis
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http://home.att.net/~dark-nemesis</A>
All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!!
The General rule,is that any lock can fail. Only a solid piece of steel wont collapse.
Dark Nemesis
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<A HREF="http://home.att.net/~dark-nemesis/" TARGET=_blank>
http://home.att.net/~dark-nemesis</A>
All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!!
I have an old Schrade Lb7 with a broken lock.
I've been meaning to send it back and will eventually do so if I can be assured of getting the knife repaired and not a new one.
I it's the only lockback I've ever had fail out of many over many years. I'm sure I'll never be able to make that statement about liner locks.
I've been meaning to send it back and will eventually do so if I can be assured of getting the knife repaired and not a new one.
I it's the only lockback I've ever had fail out of many over many years. I'm sure I'll never be able to make that statement about liner locks.
I have always steered clear of liner-locks, 'cause they don't seem solid enough to me. But the other day I opened my 4" CS Voyager, and it didn't open with it's usual click at lockup. I looked at it and tested the lock, it failed! The culprit was a little lint in the lock-up area! I blew it out and it was fine. It really surprised me, but when you look at the tolerances you realize that it wouldn't take much to keep it from locking! I guess if you want a fool-proof knife you have to pack a fixed-blade! I have carried traditional pocket knives my whole life, so I don't really depend on the lock! At least I learned to pay attention to how it feels when it opens, without cutting myself!!
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2000
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Never.
I treat any folding knife I'm using as if it had no lock at all. To me a lock is an extra level of protection, but not something to rely on - ever. This, I think, is one of the reasons that kids ought to get a non-locking folder first. A few knuckle cuts here and there go a long way toward learning how to use a knife carefully and properly.
I treat any folding knife I'm using as if it had no lock at all. To me a lock is an extra level of protection, but not something to rely on - ever. This, I think, is one of the reasons that kids ought to get a non-locking folder first. A few knuckle cuts here and there go a long way toward learning how to use a knife carefully and properly.
Columbo, you secret's safe with me - in fact what made me think was an incident with a particulaer POS in my drawerful. It seemed to be the strongest lockup of the bunch, but the sucker bit me when I applied some pressure to the spine. So I emptied the drawerful and started doing spine-whack tests on all of them. Some, which closed with a resounding CLICK, thick blades, good lock/blade mating, closed right up ! Comparing them to my Spydies, I've found the secret is not the CLICK, the backspring pressure, the side to side play (although these all do matter), it's the shape and depth of the lock cutout on the tang. Spyd's have a very pronounced notch on the tang, I imagine it mates to an equally severe notch on the lock bar. The POS knives, even though they have some strong backsprings, don't have a good deep lock notch to hold the blade, so there is a threshold where force will overpower the backspring. How are BM Ascents in this area ? Buck, Spyd, and CS seem to be the best, from the feedback.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
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I've found there's a couple ways locksbacks sometimes fail.
The main way is through the hand accidently engaging the release button. This has happened a lot, and is probably the reason for many of the unexplained lock releases. You're grasping the handle firmly, doing some hard work or whatever, and you twist your hand just so, your palm engages the lock release, and the lock disengages. Depending on your hand, you might have more problems with one time of lockback more than another. For example, some people have a lot of accidental disengagements with the backlock format, as found on the Buck 110, where the button is way at the end of the handle. Other people have more accidental disengagements with mid-locks, like Spyderco's line. Me, I've never had an accidental disengagement with either kind, but that's partially because I try to do at least some basic testing before I use the lockback -- holding firmly in various positions while torquing the blade to see if I might accidentally hit the button.
A much rarer problem is just shoddy workmanship on lockbacks. Sometimes the back spring is just way too loose, and will bend up and out. I usually find this on cheaper lockbacks, but there are definitely exceptions. For example, for a while the large-size (not mid- or small-size) Benchmade Ascents were miserably failing spine-whack tests, as Mike Turber discovered and many people here corroborated.
While I feel that lockbacks are generally-speaking more reliable than liner locks, you should still test your locks. I test all my locks extensively, including my one integral lock and two axis lock folders! Don't rely on format alone -- test!
Joe
The main way is through the hand accidently engaging the release button. This has happened a lot, and is probably the reason for many of the unexplained lock releases. You're grasping the handle firmly, doing some hard work or whatever, and you twist your hand just so, your palm engages the lock release, and the lock disengages. Depending on your hand, you might have more problems with one time of lockback more than another. For example, some people have a lot of accidental disengagements with the backlock format, as found on the Buck 110, where the button is way at the end of the handle. Other people have more accidental disengagements with mid-locks, like Spyderco's line. Me, I've never had an accidental disengagement with either kind, but that's partially because I try to do at least some basic testing before I use the lockback -- holding firmly in various positions while torquing the blade to see if I might accidentally hit the button.
A much rarer problem is just shoddy workmanship on lockbacks. Sometimes the back spring is just way too loose, and will bend up and out. I usually find this on cheaper lockbacks, but there are definitely exceptions. For example, for a while the large-size (not mid- or small-size) Benchmade Ascents were miserably failing spine-whack tests, as Mike Turber discovered and many people here corroborated.
While I feel that lockbacks are generally-speaking more reliable than liner locks, you should still test your locks. I test all my locks extensively, including my one integral lock and two axis lock folders! Don't rely on format alone -- test!
Joe
- Joined
- Nov 16, 1998
- Messages
- 1,345
RH,
If I remember correctly, (it was a looong time ago) I was cutting through the rope where a knot was. I think the point of the blade jabbed into the knot area, when I applied heavy pressure, the blade came unlocked and downward. It has never happened to me after that, but that did give me a lot more respect for a locking blade.
It happened so fast and so long ago, that's about all I can recall from that. I do know one thing though, it wasn't my thumb or finger that released the lock, because of the way I hold and use my knife, my fingers or thumb are not even near the lockback button what so ever! Another thought comes to mind, maybe there was some debre in the lock which might have caused this failure, but again, I'm not sure. But, it did fail and it could have been fatal!
A co-worker of mine here told me today since this thread that when he was young, real young, he was trying to give a tire a flat (must have been a rascal back then), he jabbed his lockback knife blade into the tire and the lock failed, closing on his finger. Yeap, he had a nasty cut and had to have stiches. He told me it was a Gerber Lockback. I told him that was a naughty thing to do and justice was served! He agrees now!
Mark
If I remember correctly, (it was a looong time ago) I was cutting through the rope where a knot was. I think the point of the blade jabbed into the knot area, when I applied heavy pressure, the blade came unlocked and downward. It has never happened to me after that, but that did give me a lot more respect for a locking blade.
It happened so fast and so long ago, that's about all I can recall from that. I do know one thing though, it wasn't my thumb or finger that released the lock, because of the way I hold and use my knife, my fingers or thumb are not even near the lockback button what so ever! Another thought comes to mind, maybe there was some debre in the lock which might have caused this failure, but again, I'm not sure. But, it did fail and it could have been fatal!
A co-worker of mine here told me today since this thread that when he was young, real young, he was trying to give a tire a flat (must have been a rascal back then), he jabbed his lockback knife blade into the tire and the lock failed, closing on his finger. Yeap, he had a nasty cut and had to have stiches. He told me it was a Gerber Lockback. I told him that was a naughty thing to do and justice was served! He agrees now!
Mark
quote
The General rule,is that any lock can fail. Only a solid piece of steel wont collapse.
/quote
Not true. I have seen a knife or two, solid steel, in two pieces. The most recent example I saw, the knife was not even really being abused, simply in an extreme environment. An instructor at the Arctic Survival School had a bolt knife he'd broken at the tang not too long before. The temp had been -40 or -50, and he'd been splitting wood. No prying, just good solid pressure in line with the blade, and a few raps on the spine of the blade with another piece of log. At some point in this process, he snapped it. I thought it rather impressive. I know it's not a knife on par with the beasts Cold Steel dramatizes about, but it is a solid piece of steel.
Stryver
The General rule,is that any lock can fail. Only a solid piece of steel wont collapse.
/quote
Not true. I have seen a knife or two, solid steel, in two pieces. The most recent example I saw, the knife was not even really being abused, simply in an extreme environment. An instructor at the Arctic Survival School had a bolt knife he'd broken at the tang not too long before. The temp had been -40 or -50, and he'd been splitting wood. No prying, just good solid pressure in line with the blade, and a few raps on the spine of the blade with another piece of log. At some point in this process, he snapped it. I thought it rather impressive. I know it's not a knife on par with the beasts Cold Steel dramatizes about, but it is a solid piece of steel.
Stryver
I thought once that my Case Mini Coperlock had failed cause it closed when I put pressure on the blade. Just as I was boxing it up to send to the factory I took a closer look at it. Deep in the pivot area and locking notch it was packed with lint from carring it in my pocket. This had prevented the lock from fully engaging. Needless to say I'm glad I discovered this before I sent it in. I'm still carring it but I check and clean it frequently.
Yes, yesterday. My BM Ascent failed when I opened it, put some pressure on the blade thru the blade hole. I didn't close it on my hand--you can tell from that that it wasn't much pressure--and that upset me a lot. Looks like I'll be getting that Calyspo Lightweight, Jr. sooner than I thought.
The only lockback that I have seen fail was my first Spydie Endura. I threw it ALOT, and some how, I couldn't really figure out what happened, it became jammed open?!?! I know, it was my fault, but it was still a failure. Besides that, I had 4 other Endura's and they never failed and I have CS XL Voyager that has yet to fail after 3+ years of total abuse. Can't say I completely trust it now, but it still holds.
Jared
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Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?
I hope that after I die, people will say of me: "That guy sure owed me a lot of money."
Jared
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Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?
I hope that after I die, people will say of me: "That guy sure owed me a lot of money."