Hey guys, lately I've been thinking about getting myself a very small FAK. I'm talking small enough to fit in my jeans' back pocket. Would the glove pouch do this? I would have a pair of nitrile gloves, a piece or two of gauze, some bandaids, some alcohol wipes, and some tape (maybe wrapped around a plastic card). Do you think the will all fit in the maxpedition glove pouch? If it does, would it still be small enough for back pocket carry? Is this unrealistic/too much? Thanks in advance!
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Every day first aid kit: back jeans pocket
- Thread starter J1427
- Start date
Although I applaud your interest in first-aid, I don't think that any FAK small enough to fit in your back pocket will be of much value in any emergency type situation. Also, sterility might be an issue. And sitting on it all day might affect the usefulness of the items.
It would make more sense to me to carry a few bandaids and alcohol wipes in a small sterile container in a jacket pocket.
It would make more sense to me to carry a few bandaids and alcohol wipes in a small sterile container in a jacket pocket.
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I carry very little for medical use.
Neosporin, gauze, athletic tape wrapped around a chopstick (finger splint), pain killer fever/reducer in those little vials you get at the checkout line.
Like to keep some alcohol near.
All that fits in a Wenger GPS case I got from goodwill that can go in a pocket. But I like killgars comment about sitting on it.
Anyway that's all I need for any situation, some superglue can fit in there to.
Those ingredients are all I used to help me reattach a large chunk of my pinky finger without insurance. I have much faith in my FAK experience. I have carried and used a smaug? As a sling, I like the multipurpose of cloths and such..
Neosporin, gauze, athletic tape wrapped around a chopstick (finger splint), pain killer fever/reducer in those little vials you get at the checkout line.
Like to keep some alcohol near.
All that fits in a Wenger GPS case I got from goodwill that can go in a pocket. But I like killgars comment about sitting on it.
Anyway that's all I need for any situation, some superglue can fit in there to.
Those ingredients are all I used to help me reattach a large chunk of my pinky finger without insurance. I have much faith in my FAK experience. I have carried and used a smaug? As a sling, I like the multipurpose of cloths and such..
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It would probably fit, but I don't think it would do a good job of keeping it clean and dry. I think you would be better off with something like an Adventure Medical Ultralight .3 or .5 kept close by (jacket, backpack, briefcase, etc.) I keep a .3 in the seat bag on my mtb and a .5 in the console of my truck. They make pretty good boo boo kits.
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Think about adding some quickclot, my local wally world has started to carry it in the camping isle under the name quick seal.
My travel FAK consists of my knife, and whatever I have on me. And no that is not a smart allec reply, I just improvise on the spot. To me first aid means exactly that, first aid. I am not too worried about being the first and last line of medical aid, it's more of a temporary fix (or slow down the issue if possible) to get them where they need to be going to the next person who can help them further.
Nasty cut on arm, use paper towels, towels, cut up clothing, etc direct pressure and elevate extremity and don't take off the towel or whatever is being used to apply pressure and change it because it's soaked in blood. Just add another layer. CPR and don't have a pocket mask, you can use a piece of clothing as a barrier it's less than ideal but it's better than nothing. Need a splint, cardboard, ruler, knife (closed, since we all have one on us here), etc and taped/tied to form a splint. The only limit is your imagination and training.
Personally if I were to carry a FAK on me the #1 priority would be BSI (body substance isolation) so in this case just basic pair of gloves and eye protection, I have no issue using my shades as I tend to buy sunglasses which are full seal and high impact anyway.
Realistically this is one of the times I would say knowledge trumps all. If you have the time I would highly recommend Emergency Responder training if your serious about this, it's time intensive at I want to say at least 60h of training off memory (may be wrong), but expect it to be closer to 100h+ due to studying. But it should have a lot of hands on skill training and covers the basics very well, I find the shorter courses that I've been through and/or helped with a little bit don't have enough hands on training to make it very practical to put to use what you have to been trained to do.
But if you plan to carry a kit, either for you or other people you should tailor it to fit your needs. Mine as mentioned before if I were to carry something be more about protecting myself as I plan on not getting anything from someone else and I tend to like to travel light and for the most part EMS tries to shoot for some fairly short response time in my area so help is a phone call away. Though when I used to airsoft in the middle of nowhere at a friends property in a large wooded area I would carry far more medical equipment as EMS wasn't going to be getting there anytime quick if they could even find the property and than make it up the long dirt road to where we were. I be surprised if one of us were injured if we were able to get any medical assistance outside of us within an hour compared to where I live where if I call 911 EMS will be here within 5min.
Nasty cut on arm, use paper towels, towels, cut up clothing, etc direct pressure and elevate extremity and don't take off the towel or whatever is being used to apply pressure and change it because it's soaked in blood. Just add another layer. CPR and don't have a pocket mask, you can use a piece of clothing as a barrier it's less than ideal but it's better than nothing. Need a splint, cardboard, ruler, knife (closed, since we all have one on us here), etc and taped/tied to form a splint. The only limit is your imagination and training.
Personally if I were to carry a FAK on me the #1 priority would be BSI (body substance isolation) so in this case just basic pair of gloves and eye protection, I have no issue using my shades as I tend to buy sunglasses which are full seal and high impact anyway.
Realistically this is one of the times I would say knowledge trumps all. If you have the time I would highly recommend Emergency Responder training if your serious about this, it's time intensive at I want to say at least 60h of training off memory (may be wrong), but expect it to be closer to 100h+ due to studying. But it should have a lot of hands on skill training and covers the basics very well, I find the shorter courses that I've been through and/or helped with a little bit don't have enough hands on training to make it very practical to put to use what you have to been trained to do.
But if you plan to carry a kit, either for you or other people you should tailor it to fit your needs. Mine as mentioned before if I were to carry something be more about protecting myself as I plan on not getting anything from someone else and I tend to like to travel light and for the most part EMS tries to shoot for some fairly short response time in my area so help is a phone call away. Though when I used to airsoft in the middle of nowhere at a friends property in a large wooded area I would carry far more medical equipment as EMS wasn't going to be getting there anytime quick if they could even find the property and than make it up the long dirt road to where we were. I be surprised if one of us were injured if we were able to get any medical assistance outside of us within an hour compared to where I live where if I call 911 EMS will be here within 5min.
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as cool as quick clot is, never use it if there is any chance of that person getting to hospital or having EMS within a few minutes. it slows them down, and really slows healing. Great if there is no other choice, but if the ambulance is almost there, just pressure, and then let the pros work.
as for pocket masks, the latest word is that there is so little added oxygen in breath, that if you don't have a mask, don't bother, just pump, there is enough reserve oxygen in the blood to keep them going for a bit, so pump till you can defib, give them the zap and hope. the zapper is what brings them back CPR just keeps the door open a bit longer.
there are many great extended first aid courses. Red cross 80 hour, different wilderness ones. just be sure that the instructor can tell you what is legal to do when, not all things fall under good samaritan at all times.
as for pocket masks, the latest word is that there is so little added oxygen in breath, that if you don't have a mask, don't bother, just pump, there is enough reserve oxygen in the blood to keep them going for a bit, so pump till you can defib, give them the zap and hope. the zapper is what brings them back CPR just keeps the door open a bit longer.
there are many great extended first aid courses. Red cross 80 hour, different wilderness ones. just be sure that the instructor can tell you what is legal to do when, not all things fall under good samaritan at all times.
For the good samaritan applies to acts done in good faith and what a competent person with your level of training would do. (Hint, don't yell out hay everybody I'm a EMT off duty when you provide EMS services you be held to that standard when performing care for what a competent EMT in your position would do.) So for an average person with no training if you screw up making a splint but you did so in good faith trying to help them, you be protected. But if an off duty EMT does it and declared he was an off duty EMT it may not protect them. Also don't go outside your scope of training if you are trained, So stick with what a rational person with your level of training would do in your situation. So another words don't bust out your SAK like Macgyver and perform emergency surgery as the good samaritan law because you may not be a surgeon but you watched a guy play one on TV and you think you know what to do.
As for the whole pocket mask thing, it is true that for the average layman's CPR they are now doing the no breaths CPR but I am under the impression they are doing that due to people refusing to give CPR for fear of mouth to mouth. Mouth to mouth breathing is still more effective, but it is your choice whether you do that or not as there are slight risks involved. So at bare minimum doing just chest compressions will be better than nothing and should hopefully buy the person more time as it takes 5-6min for an average adult to go brain dead which is around the same response time for EMS in a city and there is no telling how long they were down for already unless it was witnessed. And there is approx 21% o2 in the air we breath, medical workers have o2 tanks which are pure o2 so we can push close to 100% to really saturate them with o2, a non-rebreather mask for example (not for CPR) can give someone upwards of 97% o2 off memory.
For CPR in general it is usually to just buy the person more time, it is quite rare to my understanding for someone to come back from CPR alone so don't expect it. If your put into this position don't expect miracles to happen just keep going until help arrive or you can't go anymore. Just know the quality of CPR you provide will drop off very quickly if your doing it by yourself, this is to be expected and is even taught to medical professionals to expect this to happen to themselves if they happen to be doing CPR for prolong periods. So don't beat yourself up if you notice your quality has dropped after 5-10min. Defibrillators give people more of a chance but not all rhythms are shockable, but it is still a better chance than CPR alone.
As for quick clot and things like that, I don't even know what they have to do to deal with that stuff at the hospital when someone uses it. But in terms of EMS it's pressure and elevation for the most part to stop or at least slow down the bleeding, that will help significantly more than people give credit for. So my advice avoid that stuff if possible.
As for the whole pocket mask thing, it is true that for the average layman's CPR they are now doing the no breaths CPR but I am under the impression they are doing that due to people refusing to give CPR for fear of mouth to mouth. Mouth to mouth breathing is still more effective, but it is your choice whether you do that or not as there are slight risks involved. So at bare minimum doing just chest compressions will be better than nothing and should hopefully buy the person more time as it takes 5-6min for an average adult to go brain dead which is around the same response time for EMS in a city and there is no telling how long they were down for already unless it was witnessed. And there is approx 21% o2 in the air we breath, medical workers have o2 tanks which are pure o2 so we can push close to 100% to really saturate them with o2, a non-rebreather mask for example (not for CPR) can give someone upwards of 97% o2 off memory.
For CPR in general it is usually to just buy the person more time, it is quite rare to my understanding for someone to come back from CPR alone so don't expect it. If your put into this position don't expect miracles to happen just keep going until help arrive or you can't go anymore. Just know the quality of CPR you provide will drop off very quickly if your doing it by yourself, this is to be expected and is even taught to medical professionals to expect this to happen to themselves if they happen to be doing CPR for prolong periods. So don't beat yourself up if you notice your quality has dropped after 5-10min. Defibrillators give people more of a chance but not all rhythms are shockable, but it is still a better chance than CPR alone.
As for quick clot and things like that, I don't even know what they have to do to deal with that stuff at the hospital when someone uses it. But in terms of EMS it's pressure and elevation for the most part to stop or at least slow down the bleeding, that will help significantly more than people give credit for. So my advice avoid that stuff if possible.
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^if I severe your subclavian artery , no amount of pressure or EMT response in the world will help you; I don't know what would other than surgical clamps and whatever doctors do to repair that sort of thing. Maybe nothing will if its completely severed and deprives your brain of oxygen.
How about your deep femoral artery, how long before your dead from that?
That quick clot stuff can save lives, don't use it on "boo boos".
How about your deep femoral artery, how long before your dead from that?
That quick clot stuff can save lives, don't use it on "boo boos".
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STV Deep femoral is still going to take only a few seconds. yes some people have been lucky. But as more evidence comes up with clotting products, it seems they are not the miracle everyone thought. Its a 1% chance product. Does it work? yes. Will I ever buy it... probably not. Right now the conflicts in Iraq and Afganistan are teaching us huge amounts about trauma medicine, we've already seen tourniquets come back into use with better guidelines than before. As more of that info filters down, we will be able to apply those lessons learned. Obviously it takes some time to mine data from very chaotic situations. If you want to carry it, that is entirely up to you.
Bob, you've got mostly right. Recovery chance drops 10% for every minute the heart is stopped. compressions extend that out, and even with no added oxygen, as long as the heart is moving, you've got more time. Basically when the heart stops you are dead. There are times when the heart can re-start itself, but very rarely. And most of the medical conditions that stop the heart are shockable. So getting the shock there fast is critical, and as more defibs are available to the public, we are finding that more and more often people are getting treatment within a couple minutes, and having good outcomes. O2 can extend that time as well, but it makes little difference in the first few minutes, and if those are wasted, the dudes a gonner anyhow.
Another CPR aside, a couple studies have shown that the best CPR you will ever preform is the first time. That adrenaline rush gets everything going hard and fast. The worst are old ER docs, they have to act dignified, don't get panicky, and so don't push hard enough. As my mom puts it, if ribs aren't cracking, your not trying!
Sorry for the derail, just trying to help clear things up, since its been a thing I've had to put a reasonable amount of professional time into.
Bob, you've got mostly right. Recovery chance drops 10% for every minute the heart is stopped. compressions extend that out, and even with no added oxygen, as long as the heart is moving, you've got more time. Basically when the heart stops you are dead. There are times when the heart can re-start itself, but very rarely. And most of the medical conditions that stop the heart are shockable. So getting the shock there fast is critical, and as more defibs are available to the public, we are finding that more and more often people are getting treatment within a couple minutes, and having good outcomes. O2 can extend that time as well, but it makes little difference in the first few minutes, and if those are wasted, the dudes a gonner anyhow.
Another CPR aside, a couple studies have shown that the best CPR you will ever preform is the first time. That adrenaline rush gets everything going hard and fast. The worst are old ER docs, they have to act dignified, don't get panicky, and so don't push hard enough. As my mom puts it, if ribs aren't cracking, your not trying!
Sorry for the derail, just trying to help clear things up, since its been a thing I've had to put a reasonable amount of professional time into.
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For my part I will tell you that the glove case just may be over kill because the items you listed can be carried in a much more slim and unobtrusive form factor than the dimensions of the pouch (then again I don't know the smallest size pocket that you personally might want to fit it in etc.).
I think you have a great start on an idea to carry what you are comfortable with. That is just it. Is it worth the weight/bulk/maintenance/prep time etc. for you to assemble that stuff? The things you list is not that much. I have way more capability in my back pocket IFAC right now sitting at the computer than your list suggests.
It all depends on your carry principles, knowledge, location, needs and desire to experiment with it.
With any EDC system, it is intensely personal weather or not you view something as over kill. It is literally a balance between your own perceptions about need, comfort and practicality. I recommend looking up Analytical Survival on YT I think he is the one that mentioned that the most important thing next to sheer knowledge (like Bob6794 suggests about the hours of training)(and with that training your opinions about what to carry will change) is writing things down, carry your little pad or paper with you to iron out your ideas, jot down the "I wish I had(s). . ." moments. You can then adjust your system.
Finding a slim unobtrusive protective case for the long haul for medical type items is a challenge I am still looking to address in my carry concept and I hope I have enhanced yours.
Note: usnerdoc on YT produces AMP3 (his own brand) of med kits and has a lot of good info on this sort of preparedness.
I think you have a great start on an idea to carry what you are comfortable with. That is just it. Is it worth the weight/bulk/maintenance/prep time etc. for you to assemble that stuff? The things you list is not that much. I have way more capability in my back pocket IFAC right now sitting at the computer than your list suggests.
It all depends on your carry principles, knowledge, location, needs and desire to experiment with it.
With any EDC system, it is intensely personal weather or not you view something as over kill. It is literally a balance between your own perceptions about need, comfort and practicality. I recommend looking up Analytical Survival on YT I think he is the one that mentioned that the most important thing next to sheer knowledge (like Bob6794 suggests about the hours of training)(and with that training your opinions about what to carry will change) is writing things down, carry your little pad or paper with you to iron out your ideas, jot down the "I wish I had(s). . ." moments. You can then adjust your system.
Finding a slim unobtrusive protective case for the long haul for medical type items is a challenge I am still looking to address in my carry concept and I hope I have enhanced yours.
Note: usnerdoc on YT produces AMP3 (his own brand) of med kits and has a lot of good info on this sort of preparedness.
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Im all about it.
In my right back pocket, I have a ziplock filled with gloves, quick clot gauze, an israeli made "woundstop" bandage with pressure bar, and a TK-4 tourniquet.
The gloves aren't just to protect my hands, they also protect the wound from my hands should my hands be dirty.
In my right back pocket, I have a ziplock filled with gloves, quick clot gauze, an israeli made "woundstop" bandage with pressure bar, and a TK-4 tourniquet.
The gloves aren't just to protect my hands, they also protect the wound from my hands should my hands be dirty.
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- Aug 7, 2008
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CAT TQ, 15g celox maybe a 4" izzy
Check out D.A.R.K.
If you carry a gun, don't be naive enough to think you'll come out of an altercation unscathed.
Check out D.A.R.K.
If you carry a gun, don't be naive enough to think you'll come out of an altercation unscathed.
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Most likely thing you will come across is an auto collision. Then a diabetic in sugar trouble, then a seizure, then choking. Auto collision - If you are not trained, then get out of the way. You can do more harm than good if you have not had formal training. Diabetic - Packet of honey if they can consciously swallow. If they cannot consciously swallow, call 911. Do not put anything in the mouth of a person who is not obviously conscious, that is extremely dangerous. Seizure - make sure their head doesn't hit anything. Choking - Heimlich. After that, you're looking at a once in ten years event in a major city. Write down the phone number for poison control and have it in your wallet. Learn how to hold inline stabilization and how to do a mental status exam. It takes five minutes to learn.
Kit - Ibuprofen, aspirin, band-aids, neosporin, and tums. Water. Four nitrile gloves that fit, but only if you know when to change them and why. Learn "clean technique," it is very helpful with babies.
Mindset - Don't be Ricky Rescue who winds up getting sued white knighting it into situations he doesn't understand. I have more trouble with lifeguards thinking they know something than I care to share. If you want to help and the pros show up, offer to help, and stay back if they ask for some room.
Most important - If you want to help, get the training. Please get the training. The more the better, we need people who know what they're doing out there. Get a job in medicine. All you have to do to succeed in medicine is to go to school, get straight A's, and perform the physical tasks properly. You can be trained. When I got started I had no idea how far I would take it or what I would wind up doing years later.
If you are interested in medical training, IM me and I will see what kind of books I have laying around that I can send to you.
Kit - Ibuprofen, aspirin, band-aids, neosporin, and tums. Water. Four nitrile gloves that fit, but only if you know when to change them and why. Learn "clean technique," it is very helpful with babies.
Mindset - Don't be Ricky Rescue who winds up getting sued white knighting it into situations he doesn't understand. I have more trouble with lifeguards thinking they know something than I care to share. If you want to help and the pros show up, offer to help, and stay back if they ask for some room.
Most important - If you want to help, get the training. Please get the training. The more the better, we need people who know what they're doing out there. Get a job in medicine. All you have to do to succeed in medicine is to go to school, get straight A's, and perform the physical tasks properly. You can be trained. When I got started I had no idea how far I would take it or what I would wind up doing years later.
If you are interested in medical training, IM me and I will see what kind of books I have laying around that I can send to you.