Experience-based comments on San Mai vs 3V

J

JWBirch

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I've been using 3V for several decades and I'd like to know about Cold Steel knife users experience with Cold Steel San Mai versus their experiences with Cold Steel CPM-3V.

I'm asking because I may put some San Mai into rotation. I've seen that VG-10 has similar edge holding to 3V, while 420 has similar toughness than 3V. Except for edge stability under extreme use, it appears that these two together might behave similarly to a similar sized blade in 3V. But I don't want to assume too much.

Thank you very much.
 
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I own both steels in cold steel models and have used both. both vg1 core san mia and the Taiwan vg10 core san mai versions. I'm not super hard on knives though. so I dont have much to contribute, if you're looking for that?

they all handled normal cutting and light chopping type tasks, easy sharpening, and did fine in corrosion resistance here (in wet florida where i am) fine with no issues. I've had no obvious chipping or rolling on any of the steels on hard wood use like live, water, laurel and hybrids of those oaks. also did fine on swamp/red maples, cypress, and scrub pines.

I dont throw knives, do tip tests, bend tests or chop on bricks/ nails or any nonsense like that. don't know about cold temp use as it never gets below about mid 30s f and not for very long and I usually don't go outside when its that cold.

hope that's helpful.....
 
DocJD said:
Probably not helpful ,but I'd not expect San Mai to hold up to extreme hard usage compared to 3V .

I pushed other Cold Steel steel types hard , but always kinda babied my San Mai . So pretty !
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I think it will do okay though. 3v is 3v, but the San mai isn't weak. our favorites knife breaker ol' joey x has played with cold steel 3v and san mai and while he always breaks everything....both did pretty well overall to resistance to breaking easily and quickly.
 
Thanks DocJD. My worry is that you're right, about the edge at least. But I haven't done anything considered hard use to find out. Yet. ;)

jbmonkey, do you have any links to Joey X's posts or videos with San Mai? I'd love to see sandwiched VG-10 getting a workout.


Incidentally, the reason this was issued to me was specifically for breaking into things like locked cupboards, footlockers and shed doors. Car doors even... and that's where my doubts creep in. I have used other devices for these tasks (mostly in 3V and S7). I'm sure that my San Mai would hold up to at least the lateral prying involved because of all that 420J2... but not having used it for that purpose I'm wondering what my edge would look like if I did. I think I can assess what would happen... but with 420 working hard to hold the VG-10 together, I'm open to being surprised.
 
VG10 is no slouch. It does a good job resisting chips, and takes a sweet polish. The 420J2 is what I call an extremely stainless sorta gummy steel, and when used in San Mai helps maintain strength and prevents corrosion.

Saying that...it will pick up and show scratches like crazy.

The formula is good for making a great outdoors knife.

CPM3V is going to be even a bit stronger, with better edge holding.

It will be more prone to rust though ,so it's good to keep it dry when possible, moreso than the San Mai.
 
JWBirch said:
Thanks DocJD. My worry is that you're right, about the edge at least. But I haven't done anything considered hard use to find out. Yet. ;)

jbmonkey, do you have any links to Joey X's posts or videos with San Mai? I'd love to see sandwiched VG-10 getting a workout.


Incidentally, the reason this was issued to me was specifically for breaking into things like locked cupboards, footlockers and shed doors. Car doors even... and that's where my doubts creep in. I have used other devices for these tasks (mostly in 3V and S7). I'm sure that my San Mai would hold up to at least the lateral prying involved because of all that 420J2... but not having used it for that purpose I'm wondering what my edge would look like if I did. I think I can assess what would happen... but with 420 working hard to hold the VG-10 together, I'm open to being surprised.
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two different knives but in vg10 san mai
 
I remember when Cold Steel maintained a forum of their own . Not here on BF . Gone away now , unfortunately .

San Mai was very well respected , back then .

Still , I would choose 3V over San Mai for hard use / survival .
 
Get a pry bar. Even good sized knives in tough steels are not a good choice to force open cupboards, footlockers and sheds. Particularly car doors are not going to be breached by even a very big knife. Breaking a window is a better strategy if all you have is a knife.
 
DocJD said:
I remember when Cold Steel maintained a forum of their own . Not here on BF . Gone away now , unfortunately .

San Mai was very well respected , back then .

Still , I would choose 3V over San Mai for hard use / survival .
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yep, jlauffer jlauffer came over here when they shut it down and brought all his knowledge and made us all of those stickies at top of this forum.
 
JWBirch said:
I've been using 3V for several decades and I'd like to know about Cold Steel knife users experience with Cold Steel San Mai versus their experiences with Cold Steel CPM-3V.

I'm asking because I may put some San Mai into rotation. I've seen that VG-10 has similar edge holding to 3V, while 420 has similar toughness than 3V. Except for edge stability under extreme use, it appears that these two together might behave similarly to a similar sized blade in 3V. But I don't want to assume too much.

Thank you very much.
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My San Mi won’t get as sharp as my 3V.
 
This thread is taking really great shape, thank you all for your contributions.
In the event any future readers take issue with some of the extreme content, I want to clarify that we're exploring the limits of San Mai here... we're not in any way trying to bash this or that steel.

Safety note: many heavy knife users would recommend a thong to prevent your hand from slipping up on the blade if using it as extremely as JOEX does in the videos.

RPZIP: Thanks for your input, you are in fact correct. A prybar is a pretty ideal tool... but a lot of guys carry a sturdy knife for light breaching because you can have it on you, where an additional or heavier piece of kit will get left in camp or in a truck that may not be close by. And, once we start down the "this is better" road, we quickly bypass the prybar in favor of a crowbar and pass that up in favor of a tomahawk with lever on one end and then pass that up in favor of a halligan bar and sledge hammer and now we've arrived at 18 lbs of formal non-ballistic breaching kit. Which we have... just maybe not bungeed to my back-rack unless we're there to stack on a door. Tactical/combat types each draw the line for themselves, but commonly just past the limits of their normally expected needs. Most often just need a 4" bladed knife? Great, here's a 6" SRK! So we see a lot more Ka-Bars than prybars.

InfidelShootist: maybe you have a lot with a bad heat treat? I would recommend a really careful sharpening session, or use a Wicked Edge or Edge Pro before tossing it though. I have a laminated Spyderco with HAP40 inner core that I tried everything on for weeks... but I finally got it with a Fallkniven DC4 and a Spyderco Double Stuff. Turns out it had an irregular edge angle that needed to be made uniform. Once I got to a point where I could literally hear the correct edge angle it got hair popping sharp in about 5 minutes. Horror show sharp.

jbmonkey: Thank you for posting those. I am pretty taken aback by how much it took to get Cold Steel San Mai to start failing. And how, up until he began the purposeful destruction tests, most of the edge damage is recoverable. I had doubts it was San Mai until I saw it delaminate at the destruction point. Amazing. I'll stick with and recommend CPM-3V for extreme tactical purposes... but I won't hesitate to carry and recommend San Mai for moderate tactical use and hunting & survival kit.

For everyone watching JOEX cut the brick... from experience, those kinds of bricks aren't going to give way to many tools short of heavy S7 or 4140 breaching bars and sledges. Even a modern, well heat-treated, combat rated tomahawk is going to give you several minutes* of a workout... just to get through one.** That demonstration objectively shows resistance to edge damage, it isn't meant to suggest he's ever going to turn it into two pieces with an 8-ounce magic wand.
* "Minutes" might be generous. You may spend time more wisely if you can obtain a sledge hammer in less than half an hour.
** If you have a tomahawk, I wouldn't recommend going through that brick. Use the spike end to chip out the grout and remove the brick as a whole piece.

Any knife can be destroyed. I'm very satisfied with how spectacularly San Mai performed before failure. Knowing where those limits are is a very helpful piece of knowledge, particularly for people whose lives may have to depend on their gear. Thank you all.
 
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I'm drinking a couple beers, so take that for what it's worth.....idk What you wanna do???

If you want tough, why don't you make something out of 8670, 80crv2, 5160, or how about 1v, or CD1?

*Edit....Heck AEB-L would be a better candidate
 
Crag, I hear you, and you're spot on. The extreme end of things is where those steels shine. I have a knife in S7 that is a bit of a hoot because it's so much more inclined as a drill or a prybar than as a cutting tool.

But for finding out where San Mai hits its limit, I'm pretty happy with how this thread turned out.
 
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