"expert" opinions sought

[jdm61]

Ok all of you knife "experts" I need some constructive criticism. I posted those two fighters for sale last week on BF, BB, Don Fogg's forum, KN and KF. The blackwood one sold, but as for the sheoak handled knife, which I think is the better looking of the two as far as shape, fit and finish, etc.. all I heard was chirping crickets. So here is the question. Did the use of the somewhat unusual handle material effect the desirability of the knife or was it the fact that it didn't come with a sheath, even though the asking price reflected that? Or both? Thanks.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Joe,

Although there are no "experts"

My best guess the reasons the knife did not sell:

1) Poor choice of handle material.

2) No Sheath.

3) No Sheath.

4) Did I say no sheath?

5) Nicer guard on the one you sold. However I think think if you had a different handle material and a sheath that knife would have sold as well.

You still have time to make a sheath for it. If it doesn't sell then. Cut off the handle material and put a nice piece of Blackwood on it.

It's all a learning experience.

Remember, they didn't say no to you...they just said no to that knife in that particular configuration...note to self...don't offer a knife with that handle material again...unless it is a "custom" order.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Guesser
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

sheoak?

Is that like shecrab?

 

[jdm61]

sheoak?

Is that like shecrab?

Apparently so....lol. It looks better in person, but it does look weird. I descibed it on one post as looking like H.R. Giger's interpretation of what wood would look like on the Alien's home planet.

 

[jdm61]

Hi Joe,

Although there are no "experts"

My best guess the reasons the knife did not sell:

1) Poor choice of handle material.

2) No Sheath.

3) No Sheath.

4) Did I say no sheath?

5) Nicer guard on the one you sold. However I think think if you had a different handle material and a sheath that knife would have sold as well.

You still have time to make a sheath for it. If it doesn't sell then. Cut off the handle material and put a nice piece of Blackwood on it.

It's all a learning experience.

Remember, they didn't say no to you...they just said no to that knife in that particular configuration...note to self...don't offer a knife with that handle material again...unless it is a "custom" order.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Guesser
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

I think that I will reserve that guard style for the big knives from now on. Now that I have switched to 416 from 304 and NS, the guard style on the blackwood knife is no more difficult to do. As for changing out the handle, I have enough trouble getting them on the knives. Second note to self......don't go any wilder than amboyna or afzelia burl in the future As for the sheaths, I took a little bit of a margin haircut on the knives that had the Paul Long sheaths, but man, that leather was one hell of an effective loss leader let me tell ya I also have to remember that at this point, my objective is to continue improving my work. get my name out, and try to cover my costs. That ain't easy, ya know.

edit. As for the learning experience, it would be difficult to explain to someone who has never done anything like this how something can. at the same time, be so supremely rewarding and frustrating

 

[Kevin Jones]

Another question for the experts?
Will buyers that pass on a knife they like because there's no sheath, also turn down a dress shirt that doesn't come with a neck tie?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

This isn't a wise crack directed at you Les, because I expect you are right. I just think it's ridicules.

 

[jdm61]

Another question for the experts?
Will buyers that pass on a knife they like because there's no sheath, also turn down a dress shirt that doesn't come with a neck tie?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

This isn't a wise crack directed at you Les, because I expect you are right. I just think it's ridicules.

LOL....probably more like a sandwich without the bread in their minds. I understand what Les is saying. I need to eventually learn how to make sheaths for the "user" type knives rather than trying to make the knives fit "off the shelf" models. That is what happened with this one. It ended up being slightly too short and too narrow for a 7 inch Randall Model 1 sheath like the black knife had. Mr. Long will continue to get my bidness on the fancy ones.

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

I think the real reason the blackwood knife sold was the nicer fighter style guard .
With your lousy pictures I am surprised you sold it!

 

[Kevin Jones]

LOL....probably more like a sandwich without the bread in their minds. I understand what Les is saying. I need to eventually learn how to make sheaths for the "user" type knives rather than trying to make the knives fit "off the shelf" models. That is what happened with this one. It ended up being slightly too short and too narrow for a 7 inch Randall Model 1 sheath like the black knife had. Mr. Long will continue to get my bidness on the fancy ones.

I agree that a maker should definitely try to supply a sheath for a user, if for no other reason than if a potential buyer likes two knives equally than the knife with the sheath will win out for sure.

I agree with Anthony, in that the blackwood piece's features are better identified by the photo. I realize that it doesn't make sense to get a $200 knife professionally photographed, however get a lightbox so your photos are better.

 

[jdm61]

I think the real reason the blackwood knife sold was the nicer fighter style guard .
With your lousy pictures I am surprised you sold it!

LOL...thanks large, buddy. I am getting the idea that my "rustic" blued mild steel guards may not be in line with what folks think that a fighter should look like. They go over well on the larger bowies.

 

[jdm61]

I agree that a maker should definitely try to supply a sheath for a user, if for no other reason than if a potential buyer likes two knives equally than the knife with the sheath will win out for sure.

I agree with Anthony, in that the blackwood piece's features are better identified by the photo. I realize that it doesn't make sense to get a $200 knife professionally photographed, however get a lightbox so your photos are better.

LOL.....I have light box. What I don't have is any idea how to effectively utilize it or my camera. Take a look at the pics on my site and any that you see on a blue backgound were shot in the lightbox.........not a whole lot better, if at all, than the ones taken on the back stoop or the truck of the car like those two fighters.

 

[Les Robertson]

Kevin,

Yes, buyers will pass because there is no sheath.

This is especially true of the "Low End" knives as you like to call them.

When people are spending a certain amount they actually contemplate using the knife. Not that they ever will. However, you don't want to show up in the field with your knife in a nice zippered case.

As people may snicker and make jokes at your expense. The butt of the joke all for the lack of a $50 sheath.

Oh, a shirt doesn't need a tie. But don't try sticking a sharpened fixed blade in your pocket without a sheath. Or you will be using "SheOak" Instead of "HeOak".

Les Robertson
Seller of "Low End" knives....all with sheaths.
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

 

[Kevin Jones]

Sorry :foot:
Be satisfied your knives are coming along nicely. The sheath and photography skills will come in due time.

 

[jdm61]

Kevin,

Yes, buyers will pass because there is no sheath.

This is especially true of the "Low End" knives as you like to call them.

When people are spending a certain amount they actually contemplate using the knife. Not that they ever will. However, you don't want to show up in the field with your knife in a nice zippered case.

As people may snicker and make jokes at your expense. The butt of the joke all for the lack of a $50 sheath.

Oh, a shirt doesn't need a tie. But don't try sticking a sharpened fixed blade in your pocket without a sheath. Or you will be using "SheOak" Instead of "HeOak".

Les Robertson
Seller of "Low End" knives....all with sheaths.
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

LOL.....that is an issue Les. When I go from a "sheath that the knife was made to fit" to one that was made to fit the knife, it is a jump from $35-45 up to $80-100. That can be painful because at this stage of the game, I can't really charge the entire difference, even for superlative leather work like Paul's where folks are more attracted to the sheath than the knife

 

[RogerP]

The sheoak does not float my boat. I also agree that a fighter guard would have worked better on that piece.

Roger

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin,

Yes, buyers will pass because there is no sheath.

As I said, I'm sure some will.

This is especially true of the "Low End" knives as you like to call them.

Les, please don't try to imply that I'm insinuating something that I'm not. I don't like to call knives "Low End" as you say. I do so because knives that I call such are at the lower end of the price scale. And I'm not addressing their quality or anything else.

When people are spending a certain amount they actually contemplate using the knife. Not that they ever will. However, you don't want to show up in the field with your knife in a nice zippered case.

When contemplating a knife purchase (no matter what price) my principle concern is the quality, design, fit/finish of the knife. A sheath is easy enough to obtain after the knife purchase.

As people may snicker and make jokes at your expense. The butt of the joke all for the lack of a $50 sheath.

Oh, a shirt doesn't need a tie. But don't try sticking a sharpened fixed blade in your pocket without a sheath. Or you will be using "SheOak" Instead of "HeOak".

Les Robertson
Seller of "Low End" knives....all with sheaths.
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

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[Keith Montgomery]

I really dislike sheoak, so that would definitely have been a sale killer for me. I can live without a sheath if I have to, but prefer to get one with my knives.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Kevin,

Just a different view.

As I have stated before the $250 - $800 is the main market for custom knife sales in America. You view them as low end...not because of quality, but because your knives are primarily on the other end of the scale.

Since you have bought very few hunters in the $400 and under category I hope you will take my word for it that hunters in that category are generally not purchased without a sheath.

See the problem is the shipping costs about $30 and the sheath around $50 that is about 20% of the cost of the knife.

The same is true for Bowies under $800. Now if you go over $1,000.00 especially when Damascus is involved. I agree that a sheath is not so important. Primarily as the sheath will be made only as a compliment to the knife as for the most part the knife will never be carried. I understand this is not the case 100% of the time.

Kevin, I hope you will lend me some leeway here. While I don't have reams of statistical analysis I suspect I have bought and sold more of these knives in the last 5 years than probably just about anyone else. Which is why I feel
I have a little "expertise" in the market that Joe is building knives in. Which is why I felt somewhat qualified to comment.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

 

[jdm61]

The worst part is that the sheoak was stablized, so, as you can imagine, it was not cheap. Plus it smelled like someone was building a cheap fiberglass boat when I ground it. Think I'll stick with stag and ivory for expensive handle materials Well, at least stag. I have 5 pairs of small blue and green mammoth scales that I got from Don, but I'm afraid to use them...lol.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Hi Kevin,

Just a different view.

As I have stated before the $250 - $800 is the main market for custom knife sales in America. You view them as low end...not because of quality, but because your knives are primarily on the other end of the scale.

I definitely don't view a $800 knife as low end. I would say under $200 is my definition of low end as compared to high end. But I see your point.

Since you have bought very few hunters in the $400 and under category I hope you will take my word for it that hunters in that category are generally not purchased without a sheath.

Again. I'm sure you are correct, however that doesn't change my opinion that the knife is more important than getting a sheath.

See the problem is the shipping costs about $30 and the sheath around $50 that is about 20% of the cost of the knife.

I would rather most knifemakers deduct the cost they add in for the sheath.

The same is true for Bowies under $800. Now if you go over $1,000.00 especially when Damascus is involved. I agree that a sheath is not so important. Primarily as the sheath will be made only as a compliment to the knife as for the most part the knife will never be carried. I understand this is not the case 100% of the time.

Kevin, I hope you will lend me some leeway here. While I don't have reams of statistical analysis I suspect I have bought and sold more of these knives in the last 5 years than probably just about anyone else. Which is why I feel
I have a little "expertise" in the market that Joe is building knives in. Which is why I felt somewhat qualified to comment.

I totally agree. Actually, I believe I stated earlier today in another thread that I consider (for what that's worth) you as one of the few broad market experts in the knife industry.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

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