"export overrun" knives?

[Juramentado]

there's a somewhat shady practice by some offshore manufacturers, on which they make use of surplus materials to continue making the licensed items they were contracted to produce, and sell the stuff in other markets at really low prices. They look and perform exactly like the authentic item, because they are authentic. They're not really fakes in the strict definition of the term.

Today someone showed me a counterfeit framelock, supposedly from a well know manufacturer - the real one retails for around USD 30 and this one sells for USD 5 - and it looks like a really good copy. In fact it probably looked too good. The lock was tight and looked solid. One side appeared tp have a thin layer of G10 or FRN and the blade has AUS8 printed on it, but who knows what it really is. What got my attention was the good quality of the framelock, the fit and finish, and the overall convincing look of the item. I've seen a lot of fakes but this one is IMHO really close, which makes me wonder if there such a thing as "export overruns" in the knife biz. Could some part of this knockoff actually be from a licensed manufacturer, and the rest is counterfeit? I figure the blade is cheap "stainless steel" but the framelock is giving something to think about.

 

[Sep]

A good quality framelock costing $30 is almost guaranteed to be made in China/Taiwan/Pakistan or other cheap labor countries. However, when they do this kind of stuff they run the risk of the US brand owner ceasing production, so I think it has small probability of happening.

I know in the textile/garment world there's a practice of selling defectives / blems to the locals instead of destroying it outright, although I'm not so sure about knives. If the quality assurance standard is very high, you often see products with imperfections so minor that they're unnoticeable to an untrained eye.

Heck, Kershaw here in USA sell their blems right in this forum. More often than not the imperfection is hard to notice, and the functionality is not compromised in any way.

Sometimes the brand owner has already pulled the plug, but the manufacturer keeps producing the same (or extremely similar) products. This time around they have nothing to worry about since they've lost the account anyway, and enforcement of copyright or trademark is spotty in those countries.

In any event when you move production to those countries, you're in effect also transferring production expertise. Even after you stopped buying knives from them, they still have the expertise to produce good knives. What they don't have is marketing and design skill that fits the north american demographics. That's why they copy successful designs.

 

[CWL]

This term is called "gray market", as in gray market knives. This is very common for all commodities-based products made in China.

This happens when a factory is contracted to manufacture any sort of name-brand item from shoes, to clothes to knives and the specifications & tooling is given to them.

The unscrupulous factory then keeps production going (behind the back of the brand-owner), and they ship these out the back door to the "gray" market for cheaper.

These products are 100% the equal to the retail product and are not cheap "knock-offs". Also almost impossible for the brand-owner to detect.

 

[spiralarchitect]

Heck, Kershaw here in USA sell their blems right in this forum. More often than not the imperfection is hard to notice, and the functionality is not compromised in any way.

Kershaw/KAI USA does not sell blems here on this forum. Kershaw/KAI USA sells blems at their factory sale.


I just want to correct you before anyone gets the wrong idea. Kershawguy, a forum member, buys large quantities of Kershaw blems at the 2 annual factory sales in Tualatin, Oregon. He uses his dealer membership to pass these cosmetic blems along to other forumites at reasonable prices. He notes that all of these knives do not carry a full factory warranty but are functionaly sound. Kershawguy is not a Kershaw/KAI USA employee.

 

[Sep]

Kershaw/KAI USA does not sell blems here on this forum. Kershaw/KAI USA sells blems at their factory sale.


I just want to correct you before anyone gets the wrong idea. Kershawguy, a forum member, buys large quantities of Kershaw blems at the 2 annual factory sales in Tualatin, Oregon. He uses his dealer membership to pass these cosmetic blems along to other forumites at reasonable prices. He notes that all of these knives do not carry a full factory warranty but are functionaly sound. Kershawguy is not a Kershaw/KAI USA employee.

Thanks for the correction. I sorta jump to the conclusion because of his forum name.

 

[godot]

This term is called "gray market", as in gray market knives. This is very common for all commodities-based products made in China.

This happens when a factory is contracted to manufacture any sort of name-brand item from shoes, to clothes to knives and the specifications & tooling is given to them.

The unscrupulous factory then keeps production going (behind the back of the brand-owner), and they ship these out the back door to the "gray" market for cheaper.

These products are 100% the equal to the retail product and are not cheap "knock-offs". Also almost impossible for the brand-owner to detect.

I agree . Once the machines are set up, producing 1200 instead of 1000, is no big deal, but the extra 200 represents free money to the foreman-worker-owner whoever. It's like a few cases of beer "falling off a truck".

 

[Gollnick]

Not all of the parts in one of these "overrun" knives is necessarily the same as the original.

Very often, the company doing the final assembly of the knife, the company making the "overrun" doesn't make all of the parts.

One company may make all of the parts except the spring and do the final assembly. The American company contracts a second overseas company to make the custom-made spring and then supplies the first company with exactly the correct number of springs. If the first company decides to try and play the "overrun" game, they'll have to get the springs from somewhere else. If the first company decides to try and play the "overrun" game, they may try to make the springs themselves or hire some shop down the street to do it for them. But they will not have the technical specs for the spring, even its correct dimensions. They can try measuring one of the springs they have, but that will inevitably result in a less-than-perfect replacement.

 

[Ultimate Forge]

"Factory over-run" in China also means lower quality/cost material substitution. They may look or function okay, but don't expect the same material as what they use for the brand owners.

However "factory over-runs" seldom come to North America. Selling them here is slapping their own faces. These products usually end up in Chinese undergound markets, with the original branding or another "factory" brand name.

 

[Gollnick]

"Factory over-run" in China also means lower quality/cost material substitution. They may look or function okay, but don't expect the same material as what they use for the brand owners.

Also very true. The shaddy manufacturer may make a few substitutions to lower his cost which will raise his profit.

For example, he may make the blades for his American customer out of "expensive" steel like 440C. But he can lower his cost and raise his profit by making the blades for the "overrun" knives out of pot steel*. Visually, the average person can't tell the difference. His American customer will also check for hardness and expect a fairly tightly-controlled Rockwell number. But, for the "overrun" knives, he can be a lot less careful about the heat treatment.

This is part of the problem with these "overrun" knives for American name-brand companies. When those knives to get into the market, the end customers will buy them, find that the blades don't take and retain a good edge and springs break, and then assume that all knives from the American company whose name is on the blade are crap.

 

[Gollnick]

Black and Decker, several years ago, dealt with a Chinese contract manufacturer who decided to make a few tens of thousands of extra Black and Decker-branded electric drills. To further raise his profit on the unauthorized drills, the manufacturer left out the extra layer of electrical insulation which makes the tool "double insulated," and safe without a three-wire cord. From the outside, the consumer-customer could not tell the difference. Several people were killed by those drills.