Extreme but legitimate uses for knives

Kaizen1

Kaizen1

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Whenever we see a thread from a new guy asking about "the toughest knife in the world" or about which "hard use" knife they should get, we inevitably see responses saying that certain uses are "abuse" and "that's not what knives are intended for", etc. What would you consider, for either a fixed blade or a folder, are extreme but legitimate uses for a knife?
 
For me batoning with wood through wood is the limit of performance I ask of a knife. But I don't mean careful batoning, I'm talking cross-grain batoning through hard seasoned oak or maple using sloppy technique in the winter. To help determine whether a knife I carry in the woods is capable of this task, when I get a new knife I cross grain baton it with a rock for at least 10 or 20 whacks. Sure it uglies up the spine but I don't really care too much about the looks of my knives and if it passes this "test" than that's all the toughness I require. Toughness performance above and beyond this isn't necessary to me and I would prefer the steel selection and heat treat favor edge retention and stability after that. So far I haven't broken any of my knives :D
 
- Hatchet / Axe replacement (especially in arctic conditions )
- Lever / Stepping stone
- treating a full game like a moose ( that requires a lot from knife )
- Ice pick
- shovel replacement
 
Steel isn't like us it can't heal when battered or brusied.
So I venture to say anything that might weaken or roll the delicate edge might be considered abusive.

The irony of knives are the weakest link works the hardest, wouldn't you agree?
That being said I'm surprised my knives don't start to revolt.
I'm utilitarian by nature
 
theonew said:
For me batoning with wood through wood is the limit of performance I ask of a knife. But I don't mean careful batoning, I'm talking cross-grain batoning through hard seasoned oak or maple using sloppy technique in the winter. To help determine whether a knife I carry in the woods is capable of this task, when I get a new knife I cross grain baton it with a rock for at least 10 or 20 whacks. Sure it uglies up the spine but I don't really care too much about the looks of my knives and if it passes this "test" than that's all the toughness I require. Toughness performance above and beyond this isn't necessary to me and I would prefer the steel selection and heat treat favor edge retention and stability after that. So far I haven't broken any of my knives :D
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Do you really take a brand new knife and start hitting it with a rock? I am guessing you are joking:D
 
richstag said:
Do you really take a brand new knife and start hitting it with a rock? I am guessing you are joking:D
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Well yeah I do :o, but only fixed blades that are 3/16ths or greater in thickness that I intend to baton the heck out of in the future. I mean I'm not bashing them as hard as I can but fairly roughly. I figure if there is an inclusion or weakness it would probably show up at that point.
 
This is a good thread topic. I hope it doesn't get derailed into arguments of abuse.

Batoning - is a given for me, I do it usually within 15 minutes of opening a new fixed blade arrival package. Like thenewone, I will cross grain baton 1 - 1.5" limbs also. I never use rocks, only wood to baton.

Drilling the tip into wood. I always check a knife for its ability to drill. I drill it into both bark and cut pieces of wood, usually locust or maple that come from trees in my yard. I will put about 2lbs of pressure on the tip, often palming the handle if it is suitable for that, while drilling. I like to practice bow drill firestarting and drilling with the tip is essential to start the divot in the hearth.

Prying and flexing. Out of curiosity I always try to hand flex my knife (wearing gloves). You can get the thinner ones to flex. In the field, I will put mild pressure on a knife in regular prying. The most force I ever use is when processing fatwood in the wild. This often involves sticking the knife tip first into the rotton wood and prying everything off until you get to the good stuff. I'll then baton the blade into the fatwood so that there is about 0.5" from end and pryoff the piece. The amount of force I use really depends on the knife. I've done this with my 3/16" RC-6 and actually managed to flex the blade about 1/4" or so before I gave up on the prying. My guess was that I used about 2/3 of my body weight during that time. I then batoned the knife cross grain at the bottom of the cut to pull it out.

Chipping ice with the knife tip. I haven't done this, but I'd consider doing it with some of my more robust choppers.
 
theonew said:
Well yeah I do :o, but only fixed blades that are 3/16ths or greater in thickness that I intend to baton the heck out of in the future. I mean I'm not bashing them as hard as I can but fairly roughly. I figure if there is an inclusion or weakness it would probably show up at that point.
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If it works for you. The reason I would not is because if I was only intending to baton with wood I would test with wood. I know all about testing to exceed your needs, but I would think a rock could cause undue stress on a knife you plan to keep and not just test.

With that being said, I am probably just a sissy with my knives:D
 
Using a knife as a step seems more a test of one's willingness to go with a cut foot. Batoning, though I've only done it for fun and not out of need with one exception, seems an excessive but logical use. The toughest thing I've used a knife for is opening cans or making a hole in a board. Cutting sheet rock and copper wire rank up there as good tasks in this category as well.
 
richstag said:
I know all about testing to exceed your needs, but I would think a rock could cause undue stress on a knife you plan to keep and not just test.
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In a thin bladed knife made of certain steel types, I agree, it could definitely create damage that would show up later. But I've only done it on thick blades made from tough steels like 1095, A2, INFI, and I doubt that this has caused any damage to these knives. I've seen a lot of examples of blade failures here, even on the uber-tough knives, that were most likely caused by a manufacturing flaw. I'd rather find that out early on, with a back up blade in tow, then when I'm truly relying on the knife later on.
 
masivatak said:
Steel isn't like us it can't heal when battered or brusied.
So I venture to say anything that might weaken or roll the delicate edge might be considered abusive.

The irony of knives are the weakest link works the hardest, wouldn't you agree?
That being said I'm surprised my knives don't start to revolt.
I'm utilitarian by nature
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:thumbup: You sound like you've read some Heidegger in your day


kgd said:
Chipping ice with the knife tip. I haven't done this, but I'd consider doing it with some of my more robust choppers.
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Not quite the side of an ice covered cliff, but I had a bag of ice this past weekend, but it was basically frozen into a giant chunk. Needless to say, it wasn't going to fit in my cooler to chill my beer, so I pulled out my Blur and went to town...held up pretty well, no edge chipping.
 
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I seldom abuse any of my knives, I suppose digging and cutting plastic or other composite materials and scraping off gaskets are the toughest duty my knives get. Never had to baton anything and seldom chop wood with a knife because I carry a hatchet and saw most of the time.

When I plan to abuse a knife or chop walking sticks and such, I usually drag out a old Ginsu knife that I convexed the ege on, You can't hurt that thing.:)

99 percent of my knife use is filleting fish and skinning and cutting meat and other food prep.
 
theonew said:
In a thin bladed knife made of certain steel types, I agree, it could definitely create damage that would show up later. But I've only done it on thick blades made from tough steels like 1095, A2, INFI, and I doubt that this has caused any damage to these knives. I've seen a lot of examples of blade failures here, even on the uber-tough knives, that were most likely caused by a manufacturing flaw. I'd rather find that out early on, with a back up blade in tow, then when I'm truly relying on the knife later on.
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Do you ever put peanut butter on the top of your dogs nose?

I am sure he could get it off.

My pup does that also!
 
Fiberglass insulation or duct board. Maybe it doesn't do much in the way of strain or impact stress but it is hell of the edge of a knife.
 
J_Curd said:
Using it as a step.
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if youve read louis and clark there are examples of that sort of thing recorded as well as all kinds of other examples of extreme knife use. including using a knife to gain purchase on a cliff face, cutting steps into river banks. and yes as a weapon against an indian. a thrust to the heart that resulted in instantaneous death. it is amazing to read of the extreme uses they put their knives to. uses for us that would seem like fantasy today.
 
theonew said:
Well yeah I do :o, but only fixed blades that are 3/16ths or greater in thickness that I intend to baton the heck out of in the future. I mean I'm not bashing them as hard as I can but fairly roughly. I figure if there is an inclusion or weakness it would probably show up at that point.
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so do i, but not as a test...had to do it out of necessity (on a fixed blade), and will do it again if i have to...and i've banged a rock on a buck 110 out of necessity too...i'm not going to baby my knives out in the field...
 
I banged a Buck 110 with a rock too. Buck replaced the blade free.:) I didn't deserve that one.
 
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