Extremely Fine Grit Belts

Dag-nabit

Dag-nabit

Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
1,298
They are two camps out there when it comes to sharpening. (Well, actually there are a couple hundred thousand camps, but I'm only dealing with two here)

One camp is: if you go to say 600 - 1000 grit equivelent on a stone, belt, sandpaper, ceramic, or what have you, and finish up on a strop, that's as good as it gets, any further polishing is a waste of time.

The other camp, particularily with super steels, is: the more you polish and refine your edge, the better the edge holding and cutting performance. I have read of some folks taking their edges to 12000 grit equivelent.

To date I've been in camp one. I usually sharpen/polish on a belt sander to 9 micron (approx. 1000 - 1200 grit) then strop on black then green compound. I get my knives shaving sharp, and they hold a very sharp working edge for a long time. In other words, nothing really wrong with what I'm doing now.

I'm not certain what grit/micron the green compound is, any searches I've done are inconclusive, other than to suggest there is likely a wide variance, anywhere from 3 to 15 microns, depending on manufacturer.

I have been wanting to try polishing to a higher level just to find out for myself if there is any advantage, but wasn't having any success finding belts any finer than 9 micron.

I contacted ECON Abrasives out of Texas a couple days ago and got a reply back today. They don't stock, but can supply, belts up to 12000 grit.

The response is below, anyone interested in very fine grit belts can contact them if interested.

Or, if you know of other suppliers, let us know who they are.

Kevin

NOTE: I only inquired about 1x42 belts, but I'm certain other sizes would be available.

Kevin , Thank you for the inquiry. We go to 9 micron, equivalent to 1000 grit, we make these in house. We can supply 1x42 belts in grit sizes;
1500
1800
2400
3200
3600
4000
6000
8000
12000
Minimum order is 6 belts per grit , and delivery would be approx. 10-14 days.
Price per belt in any of the above grits is $3.40ea. Please let me know if I can
help you. Thank you again.
 
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I don't know how to figure out the micron grit size, but keep your worn belts and use these to do the mirror polish, you're using nothing more than the texture of the paper/fabric at this point.
 
CWL said:
I don't know how to figure out the micron grit size, but keep your worn belts and use these to do the mirror polish, you're using nothing more than the texture of the paper/fabric at this point.
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The correlation between grit and micron can be hard to nail down. If you look up a dozen different micron to grit conversion charts on line, you will get 6 different conversions.

The obvious difference is micron is the actual size of the grain, grit is the number of grains in a specific area (usually per sq in. for NA).

With micron the smaller the number the finer the abrasive, with grit the higher the number the finer the abrasive.

1500 grit would probably be around 6 - 7 micron
12000 grit would probably be between 1 - 2 microns

Depending on what chart you reference.

Kevin
 
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Lee Valley sells a leather strop 1x32 belt...it's very very smooth...I'd start there.
 
Just search for micro-mesh belts, they are the ones going to 12K. Grit is well established, just need to know the scale-CAMI, FEPA, JIS, etc.
 
hardheart said:
Just search for micro-mesh belts, they are the ones going to 12K. Grit is well established, just need to know the scale-CAMI, FEPA, JIS, etc.
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True, the use of the word "debatable" in my post above was probably a bad choice. (now edited to be a bit more clear)

Conversion charts on-line are not consistent. One will show 9 micron as P1000grit equivelent, another will show 9 micron as P1400 grit equivelent.

Microns on the other hand are consistent 1 micron = 1 one millionth of a meter.

At any rate, only mentioning it so that people new to the discussion are aware that conversion charts vary and should be viewed mostly as approximate comparisons.

Kevin
 
J_Curd said:
Lee Valley sells a leather strop 1x32 belt...it's very very smooth...I'd start there.
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Are you generally better off keeping the belt plain or adding some polish compound? I had one of these (very nice belt BTW!) but lost it so I'm looking to get another
 
lazerboy2000 said:
Are you generally better off keeping the belt plain or adding some polish compound? I had one of these (very nice belt BTW!) but lost it so I'm looking to get another
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I have leather stropping belts. One loaded with black compound, one loaded with green compound, and one bare leather.

I use the bare leather after sharpening to remove any remaining burr, then polish on the black and green belts.

I read somewhere recently that a bare leather belt has no effect on sharpening/polishing steel. You need compound to provide abrasive. I'm just passing on what I read there is no confirmation of the validity of the info.

This test was reportedly done by someone who confirmed that the bare leather was ineffective by using an electron microscope to photograph the edge.

Not sure if I can find the link again or not, but I'll give it a try.

Kevin

Edit: Here is the link: http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/Stropping.html
Scroll down to "OTHER SURFACES" to find the info on bare leather strops.
 
hardheart said:
Here's the paper with the sharpening experiments Beach mentions.

http://www.mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www.mse.iastate.edu/static/files/verhoeven/KnifeShExps.pdf

Bare leather does affect razor edges. I have seen that from edge photos, even from an 80+ year old advertisement. The edge has to be pretty thin.
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That's going to take awhile to read :D

Looks like great information, thanks for posting the link. :thumbup:

Oh, and BTW, searched for Micro Mesh belts and found lots, not sure why I didn't think to search for them earlier. :confused:

Kevin
 
I use a synthetic polishing belt with white compound on my RadiusMaster. Don't know the brand but it has lasted for ages. Only caveat is that it's thickness tends to micro-convex the edge, which isn't a problem for me as I prefer convexed edges anyway
 
I do belt sander down to about 9 micron belts, paper wheel, then finish on a lightly green compound infused Lee Valley leather belt. Comes out like a convexed mirror and VERY sharp.
 
Plenty of belts available in whatever size you need:
http://micro-surface.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=272_7_228_262&products_id=91

I have a Work Sharp knife sharpener that uses 1/2 x 12" belts - I already have a 6000 grit but I've got some 12000 grit belts on order. I figure they wont remove much steel or do much sharpening, but they should polish the edge nicely.

I like to put a convex edge on my blades and then polish the edge over 2 or 3 different grits. Once I have a nice sharp & polished edge I keep it that way with a strop. A regular polish on a leather strop loaded with green compound keeps my convex edges in good condition and they don't really need a sharpen on a belt unless they get damaged or worked really hard to the point of being badly dulled. I like to get 'em sharp and then keep 'em sharp. It doesn't even take much work if you regularly touch up the edges.
 
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