Eze-Lap 36F Question

[Trout Hound]

Howdy Y'all,
I just picked up an Eze-Lap 36F pocket stone (1x4", 600 grit), which I intend to use as a field sharpener. I chose the 600 because I understood from several sources that it was the best grit for general sharpening, to put on a working edge.

I decided to try it out by restoring the 20 dps microbevel on my Case Texas Jack, which had gotten rather dull after a lot of whittling this weekend. I don't have much experience using diamond stones, but I was very careful not to use any pressure on the blade. Still, it seemed as though the knife was catching on individual abrasive particles, and then jumping and skittering across the stone. Before too long, I had a rather rough edge with a pretty decent burr.

This same knife, which I can easily get slicing newsprint on my King 1000, was nowhere close after 15-20 strokes on the Eze-Lap.

Is this what I am to expect from this stone, or am I doing something wrong? Thanks.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Without actually seeing the blade's edge and what you're doing on the hone, it's hard to say exactly what's going wrong. Some thoughts:

• For just a microbevel on a small & thin blade like the Case Texas Jack, it may not need more than a few passes per side. In fact, I'd likely be taking only one very, very light pass at a time, before rechecking sharpness (by paper cutting, etc).
  
  
• Diamond hones take some getting used to; especially as regards use of pressure. If accustomed to using other hones, it's difficult to avoid over-grinding on a diamond hone (too many passes, too-heavy pressure). Whatever pressure was used with your other stone(s), try reducing it by a factor of ~3X or so, for a diamond hone (diamond is at least > 2X-3X as hard as other common abrasive types like AlOx or SiC, for example).
  
  
• With Case's small & thin blades, I'd personally not bother with a microbevel at all. If using one, I'd likely apply it with something somewhat less aggressive than a Fine (600) diamond hone. A medium ceramic, like Spyderco's brown/grey hones, works very well for such tasks. At the very least, if still using diamond, an EF or finer (1200+) would likely do better for microbevelling such simple steels on thin-edged blades. Even a 'Fine' diamond is borderline too aggressive on such thin edges, especially if the touch isn't extremely light. I use a Fine diamond for rebevelling blades like this; pressure can be a little heavier for that. For finishing an edge, even lighter pressure must be used.
  
  
• The brand-new Eze-Lap hone may benefit from some 'breaking in', to knock off the rough bumps on the surface. Most diamond hones will be noticeably rougher-feeling when new, but they smooth out with some use.

David

 

[ecallahan]

I've recently purchased an EZE lap fine stone 2 x 6. It took more breaking in than my DMT stones. There seemed to be some kind of covering over the diamond surface. I spent some time breaking it in gently with some chisels I have. It is a very nice surface now. Somewhere between a coarse and fine DMT from what I can tell. It takes a while for the surface to break in.

 

[Trout Hound]

Okay, so this was my thought process: I want something compact that will work to touch up my Mora, as well as one or two other small blades that I may carry in the field (the Case STJ, a Spyderco Delica, and blades on.a LM Wave or Juice.) I like the idea of diamond stones because they don't need oil or water, stay flat, and won't chip or break like ceramics can. I chose the continuous Eze Lap over the interrupted DMT, mainly because I thought it might be a little easier to use with the Scandi grind on the Mora.

Would I be better served to go with the SF 1200? Or, am I on the wrong track and need to look at another device entirely? Ideally, I would like to have the option of setting the stone on a flat surface to work, so something like a Diafold or a rod-style sharpener probably wouldn't be my first choice.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Okay, so this was my thought process: I want something compact that will work to touch up my Mora, as well as one or two other small blades that I may carry in the field (the Case STJ, a Spyderco Delica, and blades on.a LM Wave or Juice.) I like the idea of diamond stones because they don't need oil or water, stay flat, and won't chip or break like ceramics can. I chose the continuous Eze Lap over the interrupted DMT, mainly because I thought it might be a little easier to use with the Scandi grind on the Mora.

Would I be better served to go with the SF 1200? Or, am I on the wrong track and need to look at another device entirely? Ideally, I would like to have the option of setting the stone on a flat surface to work, so something like a Diafold or a rod-style sharpener probably wouldn't be my first choice.

Thanks everyone for your help.

For the smaller & thinner blades like Case, I think the 1200 would suit those better; especially if you're mainly relying on it for a microbevel or light touch-ups. An awful lot of it comes down to developing a touch for using diamond, taking into account how differently they'll perform (cut much deeper at a much lighter touch, therefore greatly minimizing how many passes are needed) and how that impacts what you're hoping to accomplish. It is possible to develop a touch for using the 'Fine' for the same tasks, but the somewhat gentler 1200-grit will be a little more forgiving while learning with them.

At least one well-respected vendor (Lee Valley) mentions that Eze-Lap uses a combination of polycrystalline and monocrystalline diamond on their hones. What that means is, the polycrystalline diamond grit is essentially 'clumped' into larger particles that will cut very aggressively at first, while gradually separating or breaking down into monocrystalline particles of the rated grit size. As that happens, the hone will continue to cut steel, but it will do so more evenly & gently, creating a finer-grit scratch pattern in the end. If they are making their hones this way, that could account for the apparent coarse behavior (as related to it's rated grit) when the hones are new, and will also imply that they'll get effectively 'finer' with more use, levelling off at a fixed cutting rate and finish when there's basically only monocrystalline diamond left embedded on the hone.

DMT uses only monocrystalline diamond on their hones. They'll 'smooth out' to a consistent cut rate and finish relatively quickly; there are still usually some 'clumpy' bumps on the new ones, but they come off pretty fast, in most cases.


David

 

[ecallahan]

I have been very happy with my Falkniven DC4 for field use. The diamond side takes a little breaking in like other diamond sharpeners. I flattened the ceramic side on a fine diamond hone and it is flat and very smooth - not sure but I think it is between a medium and fine spyderco ceramic now. I know you said you don't want ceramic because it can break, but being glued to the metal of the diamond side gives it additional strength. It comes in a leather sheath. I like it very much for field touch ups.

 

[D729]

Good stuff all. I started using EZE-laps when I was apprenticing as a machinist. Actually my favorites are their Hone & Stone which is 3/4 x 6 inch long. It's thin light and flat with a diamond pad on the end so I have great control over it and move it over the blade. It kind of what Samurai smiths do in some techniques. I agree with everyone, that regardless of the size of the stone or the technique, the new diamond stones are rough and have high points like you are experiencing. You need to wear it in, what we call trueing or lapping. It's work but once it's smooth it will work great. So experiment and be patient, it will take time, it's a whole new thing like every stone and sharpening medium is. I know a Japanese blade sharpener who used eight Japanese water stones to resharpen my blade. He told me each steel picks it's stones, some work with it some don't. So happy trails and enjoy the never ending quest.

 

[Trout Hound]

I have been very happy with my Falkniven DC4 for field use. The diamond side takes a little breaking in like other diamond sharpeners. I flattened the ceramic side on a fine diamond hone and it is flat and very smooth - not sure but I think it is between a medium and fine spyderco ceramic now. I know you said you don't want ceramic because it can break, but being glued to the metal of the diamond side gives it additional strength. It comes in a leather sheath. I like it very much for field touch ups.

ecallahan, I hadn't really looked at those much before, but I really like that idea. That way, I get some versatility, and, in the worst case, if the ceramic breaks, I can still get a workable edge with the diamond. Hmmm…

 

[Trout Hound]

Without actually seeing the blade's edge and what you're doing on the hone, it's hard to say exactly what's going wrong. Some thoughts:

• For just a microbevel on a small & thin blade like the Case Texas Jack, it may not need more than a few passes per side. In fact, I'd likely be taking only one very, very light pass at a time, before rechecking sharpness (by paper cutting, etc).
  
  
• Diamond hones take some getting used to; especially as regards use of pressure. If accustomed to using other hones, it's difficult to avoid over-grinding on a diamond hone (too many passes, too-heavy pressure). Whatever pressure was used with your other stone(s), try reducing it by a factor of ~3X or so, for a diamond hone (diamond is at least > 2X-3X as hard as other common abrasive types like AlOx or SiC, for example).
  
  
• With Case's small & thin blades, I'd personally not bother with a microbevel at all. If using one, I'd likely apply it with something somewhat less aggressive than a Fine (600) diamond hone. A medium ceramic, like Spyderco's brown/grey hones, works very well for such tasks. At the very least, if still using diamond, an EF or finer (1200+) would likely do better for microbevelling such simple steels on thin-edged blades. Even a 'Fine' diamond is borderline too aggressive on such thin edges, especially if the touch isn't extremely light. I use a Fine diamond for rebevelling blades like this; pressure can be a little heavier for that. For finishing an edge, even lighter pressure must be used.
  
  
• The brand-new Eze-Lap hone may benefit from some 'breaking in', to knock off the rough bumps on the surface. Most diamond hones will be noticeably rougher-feeling when new, but they smooth out with some use.

David

David, I want to ask a follow-up question on this. So, do I understand correctly that a microbevel is really only advantageous on thicker blades or harder steels where it is more difficult to sharpen the entire secondary bevel? Is there any appreciable difference in edge strength from using a microbevel on something like a Case blade? Thanks, I appreciate the advice very much.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

David, I want to ask a follow-up question on this. So, do I understand correctly that a microbevel is really only advantageous on thicker blades or harder steels where it is more difficult to sharpen the entire secondary bevel? Is there any appreciable difference in edge strength from using a microbevel on something like a Case blade? Thanks, I appreciate the advice very much.

A microbevel can be handy, depending on the situation and preference. As you mention, on large/thick blades, if the primary bevel is already adequately thin for good cutting, a microbevel can make resharpening easier and quicker. On some blades which get heavy/hard use, such as for chopping, a microbevel might help protect the edge from impact damage.

For small & thin traditional blades like on the Case, many of which are also very thinly hollow-ground, I personally don't think a microbevel will do as much to prevent damage from hard use, as the overall grind of the blade behind the edge could still be pretty easily damaged (rolled, bent, etc) with or without the tiny microbevel at the edge. These blades are very easy to completely rebevel and repair damage on anyway, as there's just not that much steel needing to be removed to fix them. I've liked keeping my Case and other traditional blades pretty thin at the edge (< 25° inclusive), because it's very easy to maintain them on an aggressive strop like white rouge on hard-backed denim, for example, or by giving them just a few low-angle passes (< 3-5 per side) on an EF diamond hone occasionally. Trying to maintain a very tiny, narrow microbevel on such an edge would likely be more trouble than it's worth, so far as I'm concerned. If the microbevel is even slightly blunted or rounded at the apex, there's no longer any benefit to having it at all.

Edit:
Another point I might add, about microbevels on very small & thin blades, is that it's extremely narrow width makes it prone to rounding off when attempting to resharpen it. The advantage in maintaining an edge without a microbevel is, the wider primary bevel is more self-stabilizing on the hone or strop, which makes it much easier to keep the apex crisp. It's easier to feel flush contact with a wider bevel, and therefore easier to maintain the proper sharpening angle.


David

 

[Trout Hound]

Thanks!!!