Factory Variations in Blade Profiles

bucksway

bucksway

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DOGPOUND77 posted a photo of a 112 in the SPS and mentioned that it seemed to be a little short. .That got me to thinking of other early 112's I've run into over the years that had what looked like a factory edge with no sign of a reprofiled tip. Not many maybe a dozen or so and all had 2 small handle pins but in both micarta and wood. Never one after Buck went to 3 pins. The 112 Ranger was meant to be a shorter version of the 110 with a 3" blade that would legal on board ships and any place with blade length restrictions. My best guess is a early batch of blades were made that was a hair short of the 3" length to make sure it was legal. Like most of yall I look at a lot of Bucks both in person and pictures and over the years I've noticed there are small variations in blade profiles and in other things like the nail notch on 110's. I'm hoping to learn more about what is normal slight variations from the factory and what is not. The recent clip point 124 posted is the perfect example of a oddball factory variations Buck did but was not in any catalog. I collect odd 112's so I'm hoping that some of you might have pictures of odd looking 112 blades but the 110 has likely the most slight variety of blade profiles since the early ones were basically hand made but if you have any other Buck model with a odd profile blade please let us see!
 
I got a lil Jack not too long ago and the blade is definitely a hair shorter. I had to send it to Buck to get the blade grind fixed because it was really off so maybe it has to do with the new edge. I didn't compare it before I sent it so maybe it has to do with the initial grind from the factory...
 
Sometimes there can be variations depending on such variables as the buffing, the skill and mood of the grinder, and I have noticed a change in some profiles over the years in any case.
 
I too have a 112 or 2 that appear to be shorter, but there's no evidence that they have been reground. I think the blade height (edge to spine) is bigger on the older 112s too. I'll see if they're somewhere where I can dig them out when I get time. Here's an example of the grind being different. These are DLT S30V NS 110s along side of some SK versions. All are drop points and the steels are S30, S90 and CPM154 (not that the steel should have any bearing on the differences).



 
MT...is that the ultimate hunter from DLT? If so, how do you like it? Maybe if you have another picture you could show it...strictly for the blade profile since that's what this thread is about :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
The Ultimate Hunter is one of my favorites, for sure. I love the rosewood and S30 and the drop point w/out a nail nick is nice and clean. A classy looking knife for certain! I've been carrying the blue S90 from SK since I got it. I imagine the S30 will perform as well as the S90 when it comes to field dressing deer and opening mail...lol

I have side photos, but visually they indistinguishable. I was surprised that they're ground not only different from each other (same batch and build date), but different from the other 3 drop points in the other photos.

In the top photo it's plain to see the one on the bottom is ground more than the one on the top and the second photo shows that it's a hair shorter as well.
 
We need to ask Jeff H. but I thinking final grinding and polishing is done by hand. Some shaping and initial grinding is automated.
That's what you can learn if you go on a factory tour.....300
 
Just an interesting aside, I remember reading something by Chuck Buck about blade grinding that always stuck with me... wish I had kept the reference so I'm going by memory. The jist of it was that in the old days it could take up to 2 hours to shape out a blade from a file... and now they had machines that could shape out a blank in 17 seconds.
 
Several years ago I worked out a complicated procedure to measure the radius and arc length for both the clip and cutting edge of 110s. My mistake was that I started with the early hand-shaped versions, and of course there was so much variability I couldn't come up with any meaningful results. I should have started with more recent versions. I haven't made any measurements on the knives that are shown here, but it seems there have been some small and gradual changes. To me, there is an obvious change in the arc of the clip. Over the years the radius has increased so that the clip is flatter and the clip arc seems to have started closer to the tip over the years. I also think the arc for the cutting edge has become a little flatter. The net effect is that there is more steel on the forward part of the blade. I guess I should go back to my measuring procedure. From left to right the knives are from 1989, 1996, and 2009.

Bert

IMG_8094.jpg
 
So DeSoto, do you think the shorter blades are a "Transitional" piece just prior to the machines? I think it would be very difficult to maintain an exact dimension when shaping by hand?
 
I remember my brother talking about the very early 110's he would pass up buying that had the single line Buck lightly etched that had been worn off or not visible and blade profiles so varied it looked like a good Pakistan copy..I'm still unsure with early 112's with no nail nick if they have a 100% full blade or not by looking at pictures. I just don't get to handle many to judge by pics.
 
I use to go by the "look" on 112s blade length. After handling a couple with blades you knew were full you just got a 'eye' for them. They just didn't look right if they were even 1/8 in short. I bet you can do that also as many as you have handled. I only have three left. A Segua and the first two issues, I know one of them has been re-tipped, says my eye. 300
 
I've been fooled on eBay by pics 2 or 3 times. It really should not be a big deal for a user but 1 I bought as new looked right in the listing but in hand there was 1/8" gone in the width of the blade where I think chips were removed. I gifted it to a family member who was grateful to have a really, really sharp knive. It came with the right box and sheith with all the paperwork but because of the 'modification' I knew everytime I looked I would remember it wasn't NIB...
 
bucksway said:
DOGPOUND77 posted a photo of a 112 in the SPS and mentioned that it seemed to be a little short. .That got me to thinking of other early 112's I've run into over the years that had what looked like a factory edge with no sign of a reprofiled tip. Not many maybe a dozen or so and all had 2 small handle pins but in both micarta and wood. Never one after Buck went to 3 pins. The 112 Ranger was meant to be a shorter version of the 110 with a 3" blade that would legal on board ships and any place with blade length restrictions. My best guess is a early batch of blades were made that was a hair short of the 3" length to make sure it was legal. Like most of yall I look at a lot of Bucks both in person and pictures and over the years I've noticed there are small variations in blade profiles and in other things like the nail notch on 110's. I'm hoping to learn more about what is normal slight variations from the factory and what is not. The recent clip point 124 posted is the perfect example of a oddball factory variations Buck did but was not in any catalog. I collect odd 112's so I'm hoping that some of you might have pictures of odd looking 112 blades but the 110 has likely the most slight variety of blade profiles since the early ones were basically hand made but if you have any other Buck model with a odd profile blade please let us see!
Click to expand...
This is a first version 112. I am the original owner and the blade, while having been sharpened over the years, never had its point broken. This is the original length.
112 End.jpg
 
Yep, that's one that's "Factory Short" ...I'm really starting to think it might be more common than I thought. If that was listed on ebay I would immediately guess reprofiled from the pic ...This is why I love this forum..
 
bucksway said:
Yep, that's one that's "Factory Short" ...I'm really starting to think it might be more common than I thought. If that was listed on ebay I would immediately guess reprofiled from the pic ...This is why I love this forum..
Click to expand...
The good news for me is I will never sell it. It was a working knife for the eight years I was with the San Diego Police Department. It cut a lot of pant legs at accident scenes. I bought it new for $12 at the Navy Exchange.
 
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