Failed again with the WEPS........

[Rolex John]

So I decided last night to try and make my Spyderco Sage 3 sharper than it already was on my WEPS. I was excited to try it because A)I could be confident about starting at 15 degrees each side and B)it was already pretty sharp. Unfortunately, it didn't go as planned after spending about 40 minutes on the knife.

I think perhaps where I'm going wrong is not exactly understanding the burr concept, and perhaps more broadly a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not particularly "mechanically inclined, and can't seem to wrap my head around much of the fundamentals here.

I think of a knife edge like a wedge, and sharpening as my effort to remove material on the skinny end of the wedge to make the skinny side (edge) as skinny as possible - skinny equals sharp. As near as I can tell, this burr is simply the skinny edge bending to one side or the other. Using my finger/thumb nail, I should be able to detect it. When I can, then apparently it's time to move from the 100 grit diamond stone to 200, then to 400, 800, etc.

So guess there's something I'm missing/not quite grasping.....help would be appreciated.

 

[RubiconSS]

Hi John-
Going after an already sharp knife is a little like dating a Porn
Star,disappoinment is a very real possibility. That said, the wedge,
sharp edge analogy is a good one but not accurate. You can end up with
what is known as a "wire edge" which is wicked sharp capable of
shaving hair, paper and feels like a scalple BUT try and cut anything
and your done. Wire edges are sharp just not strong. A perfect apex is
the goal. You will hear a lot about the burr and honestly, other than
a kitchen knife - I have never seen or felt one,I believe the burr is
the G-Spot of the knife world. It exists, it is just hard as heck to detect for the uninitated.
That is why I rely SO much on the sharpie tick. Viewed under
magnification once gone the apex has been reached simple as that. IF
sharpie is still there - NO. If sharpie is gone so is ALL the metal to
apex. Can't rewrite the laws of physical science.
I also am a proponant of human sacrifice, well more accurately - human
(yours) thumb pad at least. Once sharpie is gone AND the edge wants to
grab your thumb pad (at 100 grit) the knife is sharp and the edge can
be refined.
Don't do these simple things and failure is not an option - it is a certainty.
Rubi

 

[Rolex John]

Thanks Rubi - much appreciated.

 

[RubiconSS]

Thanks Rubi - much appreciated.

Anytime.

I am reminded of what an Old codger told me one Summer job building pools, "Dig the hole wrong and by the time they fill the pool the water will be crooked"
The first step in the WEPS sets the stage for everything that comes later, don't end up with crooked water

 

[DrPenguin]

Maybe it is the steel or my technique or something else, but I have always been able to find a nice burr.... if I wanted one.

That's something I learned on the way, that once I could detect a burr pretty easily it was not necessary to get a big one that my eye could see all along the edge. Now what I call a burr is much smaller than when I was a kid and learning to sharpen. I am not a sharpening guru but it is easy to feel it on the off side of where I am sharpening (depending on the steel and the size of the burr) and it moves from side to side as I switch sides. Run my finger across the edge on one side and it feels slippery, the other side has a sticky feeling. Hit this side with the stones and the slippery/sticky sides switch. Nothing to it.

Another little trick that may be heresy to the anointed: I use a wood cutting board to bend the burr down sometimes if I am dealing with a soft steel that is fighting me and the last bit won't go away.

I'll note which side the burr is turned toward, put the edge on the cutting board and slide it down its length to bend the burr down on the edge. Then I'll stone this side carefully to brush the burr off before polishing the blade. Sometimes it isn't getting a burr that is hard it is getting rid of it.

It's like a lot of other things it is tough to put into words and can be frustrating but once you figure it out it all seems simple. I really am glad my pop was able to teach me how so I didn't have to learn on my own. I can imagine it is tough to get the hang of it from the written word.

Will

 

[retzius]

Next time you have a bottle of wine save the cork.

Run the knife through the cork between stones and the burr will be removed.

This works just a good as a deburring block and its free.

Removing the burr between stones, rather than just flopping it back and forth, will really make those edges pop.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

A good 'test case' to make & see an obvious burr (wire edge) is a thin, hollow-grind blade in 420HC, VG-10 or maybe ATS-34. In particular, the 420HC used in Case's 'Tru-Sharp' blades is next to impossible to not make a burr (assuming the edge gets fully apexed), when sharpened. VG-10 will also burr very easily, especially on ceramic hones. And these ones are tenacious like pit bulls, to remove them. All three of these steels won't be fazed by using wood, cork or similar materials to strip burrs off, because these burrs just don't break or tear that easily (very ductile steels, all of them). The best way I've found to remove them, is to gently abrade them away. Basically file it down, very gently, until it's finally so tiny & thin, that it can be removed.

I haven't seen significant burrs on S30V or D2, more often than not. It's often difficult to detect a burr on 1095, when sharpened on coarser diamond hones. Diamond can create and strip a burr away from this relatively 'soft' steel, in virtually a single pass. This makes it difficult to detect, without watching very, very closely on each and every stroke.

Another variable is the sharpening media. Some abrasive types are much worse than others, in making burrs on edges (or not). The pressure exerted against an edge makes a big difference too. This is where ceramic hones really need to be treated lightly (literally). Ceramics are great for removing/filing burrs away. But, conversely, they can make some very stubborn burrs too, if pressure is too heavy or the angle is too steep.