Fake ZT560

[marsalla]

I have noticed (I need to get out more) a that many of the high end knives that we collect are being faked in China (go figure). How can we tell the difference between a real one and a fake? Are there specific things to look for that would be on one and not the other. Any help would be appreciated.


Thank you

 

[dr_fosg8]

Start by buying from authorized dealers only or through the exchange here on this site.

A lot of the fakes are also getting scary close to the real thing too. So if you don't have it in hand you may not be able to tell easily.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

The first hint would be a price that is too good to be true.
Always buy from a reputable dealer or person.

 

[KenHash]

There's nothing to go figure, it's been going on for years. And it's hardly just knives either.
My policy for knives is to study and learn as much as possible about what you want, to the point that anything
out of the ordinary might come to your attention. Don't hesitate to contact the manufacturers' customer service
for help, I have several times. Never buy an existing model on Ebay, nothing being shipping from China, nothing
ridiculously underpriced, items with stock photos only.
As others said, buy from reputable authorized dealers. Read the manufacturers' website they
often have info on counterfeits and identifying them. Buy only discontinued or vintage knives on ebay, after studying the
model. The crooks don't bother copying out of production models.
Buying on the exchange is quite safe as everybody both sellers and buyers here are pretty knowlegable and sensitive to such things.

 

[EDCanAdamas]

The crooks don't bother copying out of production models.

Generally true, but in theory wouldn't the original batch of counterfeits would still be floating around online somewhere? As a rule I avoid that famous online auction site like the plague. In spotting fakes, I find (personal experience, YMMV) that the steel quality of fakes is usually is such that it feels "lighter" than the real thing. Fakes also seem to polish everything up to a chromesque sheen.

 

[EDCanAdamas]

OP, do you have any pictures/links of this fake ZT560? Sometimes the fakes are laughably bad: Spyderco's with gaudy spider logos, a liner lock Benchmade Adamas, knock-off stuff that looks like is was assembled by five year olds in boxes marked "Buck Knives".

 

[Thomas Linton]

" The crooks don't bother copying out of production models."

I was just looking at an out-of-production Buck that continues to flow forth out of CHINA. Makes it hard when the only source is the secondary market, and that market can't be trusted.

 

[Comeuppance]

I spend a lot of time looking through Aliexpress and eBay trying to find hitherto-unknown quality folders. I've found a few good knives that are basically unheard of, but what I found the most of was fakes.

Most of the fakes are of a few select models - and while most of the fakes are immediately identifiable as such due to shape or color differences there are certain models I cannot safely buy off of eBay because the fakes are too close to the real deal:
Spyderco Endura
Spyderco Southard
Spyderco Paramilitary
Spyderco Dragonfly
Spyderco Military
Spyderco Civilian

Zero Tolerance 0777
Zero Tolerance 0801

I've yet to see a particularly convincing 056X fake.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I have noticed (I need to get out more) a that many of the high end knives that we collect are being faked in China (go figure). How can we tell the difference between a real one and a fake? Are there specific things to look for that would be on one and not the other. Any help would be appreciated.


Thank you

Unfortunately there is not a definitive answer to your question. The fake knives made in china are made by numerous groups of people. You could have two knives that in pictures look identical but in the hand the build will be slightly different. And certain rules that once applied no longer do. For instance a couple years ago a good way to tell the fakes of something like a 0560 was the bearings they chose to use. For the longest time most chinese makers were using the same roller bearing. Any knife with that bearing in it would be fake. They caught on to us catching on and now they simply replicate every single part. Many times with alarming accuracy these days. Another contributing factor to making fakes difficult to spot is when a manufacturer changes its designs to combat the counterfeiters. At first it seems like a good idea. Constantly changing your product means the counterfeiters are constantly having to chase your changes to keep up. But what this does is creates so many variations on a theme that it gets hard to keep track of all the changes a company has implemented to make their work harder to replicate. So what you have are actually some genuine knives being falsely identified as a fake because not everyone will be hip to all the changes a company makes to its design. And as long as the counterfeiter is staying with a single variation they dont actually have to change the design when the true manufacturer does because they can easily keep making the previous version and no one is to challenge them because anyone selling one can claim its simply an older model to explain any differences one might spot.

With that said not all hope is lost. In the case of the 0560 the fakes are usually pretty easy to spot because everyone who made them got the grind wrong. So most will have a jacked up swedge. Another easy tell is the finish itself. Most 0560s have a fine bead blast that is very smooth yet a matte finish. Most fakes have a rough sand blasted finish that shows marks faster than a sebenza in a blender. Still that does not account for knives that will be sold as refinished, modified etc.

As for buying from an authorized dealer this is good advice. But just remember its not fool proof. Its becoming all too popular that people are buying both a real and a fake and then returning the fake to the authorized retailer so they can get the genuine article for a fraction of the price. Dealers that employ true knife enthusiasts like say bladehq are usually a much safer bet because if a fast one is tried to be pulled on them the chances that they catch it will be a lot higher than a dicks sporting goods where you are going to be lucky if the guy working the counter will even know where the knife was made let alone spotting nuances between a fake and genuine product.

Im afraid these days the only guarantee is that there is no absolute guarantee. And all the "right choices" wont replace educating yourself. You need to view threads on counterfeits. And when one pops up in the exchange look at it really good. And even if you despise the chinese selling sites they 99% of the time are now showing pictures of the actual product they are selling instead of the previous method of selling which was to use a picture of the real thing but sell a fake. So now that they are using real pics of what they are selling you have nice high res shots to make comparisons.

Still a lot of people like to blame the chinese for what is happening with counterfeits. Sure they are supplying these items. But they are not creating the demand. And none of the known chinese sites that I am aware of are selling their products as the genuine article. Ever person i know in the states that has been ripped off on a fake knife was ripped off by another american. IMHO the very best place to NOT get ripped off are on the forums from individuals with good reputations. They know the products often better than some of the people working for the companies that made them. They can spot a fake a mile off and when one is posted in the exchange its usually identified and removed before the offender even realizes the mistake they made. Sorry I cant give a more conclusive answer. I wish there was a "oh if it has this its fake and if it doesnt its real" type answer. But it just isnt the case. And I am afraid its only going to get worse. It is a true global market these days. Just a few short years ago china didnt have access to the machines or the materials to make a 1 for 1 copy. Now they do. They are buying S35VN, they are looking at the pictures knifemakers are posting of their equipment and if not buying that equipment they are replicating it. And that is something to remember. Many wonder how it is they are making knives to such exact precision. Some think they are just taking pictures and working with that. They are not doing that. In nearly every case where you have an exact replica those knives were reverse engineered by importing an example of that actual knife. This way they can constantly compare their work to an actual example.

 

[RevDevil]

I have noticed (I need to get out more) a that many of the high end knives that we collect are being faked in China (go figure). How can we tell the difference between a real one and a fake? Are there specific things to look for that would be on one and not the other. Any help would be appreciated.


Thank you

Buy from a reputable source would be the most obvious one. If a deal is too good to be true, then it is.

 

[KenHash]

Generally true, but in theory wouldn't the original batch of counterfeits would still be floating around online somewhere? As a rule I avoid that famous online auction site like the plague. In spotting fakes, I find (personal experience, YMMV) that the steel quality of fakes is usually is such that it feels "lighter" than the real thing. Fakes also seem to polish everything up to a chromesque sheen.

Yes you are right, in theory those old fakes are still around. But in all the years of buying discontinued knives on ebay
I've never purchased a counterfeit. I thought I had once and contacted the manfacturer who assured me that it was genuine. In contrast I hear horror stories of current production model counterfeits all the time. Often I see them openly listed for sale. So a policy of avoiding that place completely certainly isn't wrong by any means. I will take your word for it as far as how fakes feel in the hand.

 

[KenHash]

" The crooks don't bother copying out of production models."

I was just looking at an out-of-production Buck that continues to flow forth out of CHINA. Makes it hard when the only source is the secondary market, and that market can't be trusted.

Obviously my statement which sounds absolute needs to be qualified, What I mean is that counterfeiting out of production models does not appear to as rampant as current production models, particularly since that would be less profitable for the crooks. And, as has been pointed out there may beearlier counterfeits still out on the market. I admit Ive seen counterfeit SOG Seal 2000s which went out of prpduction in 2007,