fallkniven A1 & S1

[daniel4572]

thinking about buying one or both of these please respond with any comments, or should i just stick with my dozier wilderness knife?????

 

[TOMBSTONE]

thinking about buying one or both of these please respond with any comments, or should i just stick with my dozier wilderness knife?????

I used to own an S1.I never used the knife,but it appeared well made.However,I can't believe it would be a better knife than your Dozier.I would stick with what you have imho.

 

[djolney]

Fallkniven make very good knives. I have an A1, and will probably buy an S1 at some point. If you want a tough camp knife I’d buy the A1, and if you want more of a hunting knife I’d buy the S1.

The laminated blades are very strong, and the VG10 takes and holds an excellent edge.

Your Dozier is a very good knife, and other than some additional lateral strength I don’t think there is a particular reason why you should buy a Fallkniven. But if you want a really nice high quality knife to keep your Dozier company, a Fallkniven would be a good choice.

 

[Blues]

The Dozier is a great knife. I had the slightly thinner/smaller PGK and still have a couple of my smaller (hunter size) Dozier's. Bob is an outdoorsman and knows how to make a knife suitable for the field.

I also had the A1 ( a little large for my needs but an excellent knife nonetheless) and still have the S1 which is much better suited (sizewise) for my outings.

As already mentioned, there's nothing your Dozier won't do that the Fallkniven's will but that never stopped any of us from adding another knife.

 

[T.K.C.]

I peresonally REALLY like Fallkniven and the gentleman that owns Fallkniven. They are great knives!! And so is Bob Dozier!! His stuff is outstanding!! So, either way, you can not go wrong!!

 

[Cliff Stamp]

[A1 / S1]

... or should i just stick with my dozier wilderness knife?

What tasks did you have in mind?

[S1]

I can't believe it would be a better knife than your Dozier.

Dozier has already commented in the Survival forums there are things his knives are not made to do (heavy batoning) that are easily done with the Falkniven knives which are *much* more robust, especially in the tip. Which one is better depends on what you are doing.

-Cliff

 

[Blues]

I'm pretty sure that the Wilderness knife will stand up to batoning and if I recall, Steve Dick has employed it in that way. (Been a while since I last discussed this with Steve.)

Per the Dozier site:

Overall Length: 9 7/8"
Blade Length: 5 "
Blade Thickness: .200
Blade Specs: Full tang construction, D2 steel .200 thick
Weight: 9.75 oz. without sheath
Handle: Black Micarta® handle.

The Dozier Wilderness Knife was designed with the assistance of professional forester and outdoorsman, Steve Dick, who is also the editor of Tactical Knives magazine. It was built for those times, or field trips, when Steve would have to depend on a knife for everything from food preparation and chopping kindling to perhaps even saving his life.

With these things in mind, I have used .200 thick D2 blade steel and have left the edge thicker than I normally do. It is ground to have edge-holding ability for heavy cutting and chopping situations. The handle is longer than I usually put on a knife, for comfort and grip in extended use, and will accommodate even the largest hands. It is hand ground, heat treated and finished in my shop, using my time-tested methods. Be assured that the Wilderness Knife measures up to my other knives, on which my reputation is built.

This is not to in any way denigrate the Fallkniven blades of which I still have the H1 and S1 which I regard very highly.

I don't use my Dozier's or Fallkniven blades for chopping concrete but they have served me well in the mountains of NC.

 

[J.Davey]

I've owned an A1 (with solid VG-10 blade, not laminated) for several years (since they first became readily available in the USA, I believe). In my opinion, it is the finest medium-sized production fixed blade I've ever owned. I have used it to baton wood while camping, prepare food, and other typical camping and hiking chores. I honestly feel that Fallkniven's are some of the best production fixed blades in the world. I still yearn to own an A2 Wilderness knife.:thumbup:

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I'm pretty sure that the Wilderness knife will stand up to batoning ...

On what class of wood? In what weather? With what level of applied force? With what baton? I will hopefully getting some video's this weekend of a friend doing some batoning as there are basically three types; clear woods, knotted wood which can be split without chiseling the knot, rounds which require chisel cutting of knots. The difference between the first and the third is more than an order of magnitude.

There is no issue with spine thickness in regard to batoning, there is no lateral stress through the spine. What is critical is the strength of the edge, specifically in regards to twisting when the blade is in a knot. This is the main weakness of hollow grinds, they will focus all the stress on the edge and lead to primary breakouts much more readily than flat or convex ground blades.

I have seen a Buck Solution for example which has a hollow grind on an edge thicker than the Dozier K2 (0.022-0.030") easily lose quarter sized pieces out of the edge just chopping hardwoods when torqued with just wrist strain, nothing heavy. It would have had no ability to baton through anything but clear wood.

There are many differences between those two knives that simply saying one is "better" is absurd, any difference gives advantages. The grip on Doziers for example is near impossibly to control if you use cotton gloves which are common around here, but the aggressive kraton checkering on the Fallkniven's handles it well.

The Fallkniven laminated steel is also much tougher in regards to impacts, much more flexible, and the A1 and S1 have very robust points for heavy wood work yet at the same time the convex grind tapers to a fairly fine edge. I have used Dozier's blades, they have advantages over the Fallkniven's in several respects and the opposite is true as well.

-Cliff

 

[Blues]

Sounds like it might be a tad too dangerous for you to venture outdoors (cotton gloves notwithstanding) what with all those unforeseen variables facing you.

Makes me wonder how I survived all those years backpacking across Canada and from Alaska to NH with nothing more than some cheap knife of whatever dubious mystery steel was prevalent at the time.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... what with all those unforeseen variables

They are not unforeseen to me, I know the local wood types and choose according. If I don't know the wood types I assume the worst. If someone asks for a recommendation on a knife for batoning (or anything else) I'd just ask for some details and factor this in. It means different things to different people, and the wood type makes a huge difference, just as with axe selection.

Makes me wonder how I survived all those years backpacking across Canada and from Alaska to NH with nothing more than some cheap knife of whatever dubious mystery steel was prevalent at the time.

So based on this arguement why buy a Dozier when the cheap mystery steel knife was acceptable?

-Cliff

 

[Blues]

So based on this arguement why buy a Dozier when the cheap mystery steel knife was acceptable?

-Cliff

Good question and a fair one.

Frankly, I have bought as many knives for my appreciation of the workmanship, aesthetics and the character of the maker as for any other reason. Once collecting became a "hobby" (dare I say addiction?) it was easy to continue down that slippery slope.

I've curtailed that tendency greatly in the last couple of years and have come to realize that I do as well (generally speaking) in the mountains equipped with an inexpensive Mora backed up by an Opinel saw as I do with one of the higher end manufacturer's knives or one by a highly regarded custom maker. Differences in performance (generally) are subtle and in the end it is ability and experience more than equipment that make most of the difference.

Obviously there are situations where one particular tool or another would be handier in a given situation...machete, ax, hatchet etc.

But then, in all the years I've spent in the mountains and wilderness since the 60's, climbing, backpacking, canoeing etc., I've never found that the quality of my knife was the thing that separated a successful venture (or surviving a dangerous situation) from failure. (And trust me I've been in some interesting situations from avalanches to wild Alaskan river crossings, from bear encounters to high angle climbing incidents over those decades.)

This is the reason that I have to sit back and smile when I read some of what folks think they need to survive a wilderness experience.

YMMV and all that...

 

[numberthree]

Well said, Blues.

 

[Blues]

Well said, Blues.

Thank you, kind sir.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

[differences are subtle]

I have seen differences in cutting ability, chopping ability, edge retention, and ergonomics of many times to one and this leads directly to task. I have for example constructed identical shelters with different knives and found the times and effort required many times different. Is this enough to be significant, yes considering the length of time it takes for exposure.

I could take someone with little ability or knowledge but a really nice axe and they would readily out chop me with a really horrible axe because the performance from top to bottom can be more than 5:1. I have seen axes so bad that you get less than 1/2" of penetration on a swing even into moderate soft woods. Not to mention then things like handle failures due to improper grain or poor head just breaking.

Check out possums recent post where he noted several failures of cheap knives just trying to clean a deer which lead to the knife being broken in half. And the posts where knives cracked in half right at the tang just splitting moderate rounds. Does this kill you immediately, no, but assuming you support the idea that the knife increases your ability, the break sure has reduced it.

I've never found that the quality of my knife was the thing that separated a successful venture (or surviving a dangerous situation) from failure.

Does this extend to all gear selection or just knives? As a note, several people have described exactly that, Clements for example on rec.knives noted using a stout fixed blade as an emergency break down a side towards a cliff face, a low quality knife could have easily broke. My brother was free climbing a few years ago and had to use a fixed blade as a step, which he later retrived with ropes. Beyond the issue of does it kill you, would you really argue that it makes no functional difference and doesn't lower the fatigue/discomfort/effort/stress induced?

-Cliff

 

[Blues]

What could I have been thinking? You're right of course (as always), Cliff.

(I knew I should have known better. What's that old saying about wrestling with pigs? )

I will say, in parting, that in this fantasy world of using knives as belaying points and pitons, that any attempt to self arrest with a knife to avoid going over the edge of a cliff is pretty much b.s. The speed/momentum of your fall/slide would torque the knife right out of your hand, let alone cut you up. I've done enough self arrests with (and without) ice axes on glaciers and snowfields to have a little experience in this area. But do feel free to give it a try... I'm sure there's at least one guy who did so and survived. That'll make the case for picking a nice stout knife for such activities. :barf:

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . .
I will say, in parting, that in this fantasy world of using knives as belaying points and pitons, that any attempt to self arrest with a knife to avoid going over the edge of a cliff is pretty much b.s. The speed/momentum of your fall/slide would torque the knife right out of your hand, let alone cut you up.

Respectfully, Super Mod, it seems that you must be making some assumption about the speed at the point when a knife might be used to stop the motion. While a knife hardly seems like the optimal tool, every trip starts somewhere.

And if we stop talking about which knife is better for which task, it's gonna' get relatively dull around here.

 

[spinynorman]

If you should find yourself using a knife to self-arrest, you have almost certainly already made *multiple* (by my count a bare minimum of three) serious errors of judgement.

 

[Sid Post]

thinking about buying one or both of these please respond with any comments, or should i just stick with my dozier wilderness knife?????

Coming back to the original post, why are you considering buying one or both of these knives? We all can name several reasons why you would or would not want to do that.

They are good knives priced fairly and meet the needs of a lot of people all over the world.