false edges

F

Fred

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
140
Other than appearance, is there a functional reason for a blade to have a false edge?

-Fred
 
Even without sharpening it improves penetration in using the point. Kind of like how even the dullest knife cuts better than a simple flat piece of steel....

One of the main reasons for the prevalence of false edges is they give the buyer the option of whether to sharpen them or not. Another reason is knives with false edges can be sold in all jurisdictions, even places where it's illegal to sell a double-edged knife (by the way, it's legal in most of those jurisdictions to possess a double-edged knife after the owner sharpens it).

I have been using a definition a clip that has a primary grind that isn't sharpened in this post. I normally avoid using the term "false edge" at all because everybody and his hamster thinks the term means something different from everybody else and his hamster.... The term can mean anything from a razor sharp clip to a mere swage, depending on who's using it.



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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
 
The idea is to increase penetration. I'm not quite sure how much of a difference there really is. I don't think it would really be any harder to stab a normal blade through the same surface, the same depth. I have a theory; once you get to the end of the swedge, the penetration will become more difficult than a normal blade. Think of it this way; a swedge changes the angle of the top view of the blade, makes it a wider angle. Which is easier to push- something with a thin taper, or something with a really wide taper? If you argue that this is a trivial difference, you'd have to agree that the swedge doesn't make much of a difference itself.

I suppose some people would also say it decreases weight.

Personally, I hate them. I don't like the idea of sacrificing tip strength.
 
I am getting a little confused by terminology here. I think the original post used the term false edge which I take to be sharpened. But even if it were a swedge, I think it would increase penetration. Reason is you have inclined wedge shape on both side and wedges provide a mechanical advantage pushing that which you are cutting apart. Blade taper of blade does this also.

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Roger Blake
 
It depends ... some of them taper gracefully at the end, others have a plunge cut.

I agree it doesn't make much difference in penetration. I wouldn't be surprised if a false edge that ends with a plunge cut actually makes things worse.


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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
 
I think it's popular cause we all wannabe G.I.Joe. Looks mean and makes us feel like natural born killers!!

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"

 
I recently sold my Mad Dog Shrike. The Shrike has to be the best dagger-based design ever!
It has a true "SHARP" false edge, which in my opinion did help with penetration. I could cut almost as well with the false (back) edge as I could the primary edge. In knife practices w/ the blade, I actually could use the false edge to make snap cuts. I don't know if this is unusual or not, but I did like to know that if the situation arouse and I had too, I could cut with both sides of the blade...
Jess
I kept the knife in the family...my father bought it
(and I got a shotgun out of the deal too
smile.gif
)
 
Properly speaking, an unsharpened suggestion of an edge on the spine of a blade is a "swedge." A sharpened edge that only extends part way back on the spine is a "false edge".

The primary purpose of a swedge is to inprove the knife's stabbing ability.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
 
sometimes a false edge is sharpened to a different angle than the primary edge for chopping thru bones or wood. It also lightens the knife and changes the balance, although only slightly.

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lifter
Phil. 4:13

Dave
Wharton,NJ


 
Hi Guys
I have a question how can you use the term false edge on any part of a knife that actually has an edge that is sharp? May be I am way out of touch with the terminology but it seems like a contradiction of terms. What a confussing thing these knives are.
 
Well - I know they make a blade LOOK GOOD.
As for its USE, unless its sharpened, it is of little use at all.

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I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!

 
When I was much younger and dumber I hunted wild pigs with a dog and a 6" Buck Bowie, I always carried a handgun in case I got into trouble. I only used the hangun once. You feel no resistence at all when bury the blade into a pig! Of course when you jump on a pig with a knife in your hand, the adrenaline level is pretty high. It was quite a rush, but didn't seem too rational, so I quit!!
 
Lotsa' hunters like a sharpened false edge too. They can use the stronger edge on top to chop through bone while not flattening out the edge they are planning on using to skin the critter later.
 
So, a "false edge", if deemed necessary, should be sharpened to a thicker(?) angle so as to facilitate chopping and preserve the primary edge from having to perform *dirty jobs?

What about a knife with a sweeping clip point and a false edge(swedge)? My friend just got a Spec Plus Marine Combat and it has a 7" sweeping clip point blade with a swedge that came from the store looking like someone allready tried to sharpen it. If it were sharpened it would seem to be VERY unpractical to use due to it's being concave.

Any thoughts on this, is it worth sharpening or will it just be a nasty cut waiting to happen?

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Yeah! Drop the chalupa...
 
Bill Bagwell explained it in last issue of Combat Knives Mag. I'm trying to write from the top of my head here. There's a technique called "back cut," which utilizes that part of the blade. He claimed that when executing the back cut, the point of the blade would hit the target first (due to the concaveness of the false edge) and cause devastrating effect. (I still don't see though how that's more deadly than using the true edge.)

Dew.
 
There was a good article on false edges by Bernard Levine in the April '99 Blade. To clarify some terms; false edges are beveled like a cutting edge but they're not sharp. "Swedge" is just a technical term for false edge. A "sharp false edge" is a false edge that has been sharpened; usually it's a thick, axe-type edge for chopping. "Double-edged" knives are designed for combat.

Levine writes that the word "swedge" comes from the swage, a forging tool that was used to impart the angled swedge on a blade.

Does the swedge help in penetration? Levine says, "I doubt that the extra bevels behind the point would make much difference, but the do give the blade a sleek and formidable look."

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Cerulean

What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain? - Blake
 
Backcuts are nasty cuz they're REALLY fast when done right (and with a Bowie in excess of 9" in the blade). Using training knives, I am usually able to hit my partner much faster than he can hit me if I snap a couple of backcuts at him. You can roll the motion into a snapcut, too.

My two cents...
wink.gif
 
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