Could I use a extra coarse or extra-extra coarse diamond benchstone to do a fast reprofile job on regular steels? Sandvik, AUS8 and the like. I have done a few reprofiles and it takes me between 3 and 5 hours just to set the bevel. That doesn't count actually doing the sharpening. I would sharpen the knife on my regular alum oxide stone afterward.
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Fast reprofiling with a diamond benchstone on regular steels?
- Thread starter Squashfan
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I would cuation bearing down with too much pressure on diamonds. Let the abrasive do the work.
Past that, if you can maintain a good steady angle and pace reprofiling one of those steels in a common size blade ( 1" wide, 3" long 1/8" thick ) could be done in under an hour just to get the bevels established. But just work with a pace your comfortable at and take breaks if it's taking too long, you'll find more frustration in rushing yourself.
Past that, if you can maintain a good steady angle and pace reprofiling one of those steels in a common size blade ( 1" wide, 3" long 1/8" thick ) could be done in under an hour just to get the bevels established. But just work with a pace your comfortable at and take breaks if it's taking too long, you'll find more frustration in rushing yourself.
Sadden, KennyB, thanks for your responses. I had thought about the scratch problem. It might take me longer to remove the scratches than to do the reprofile with the old stone. If I use very much pressure I deform the bevel into a really, really convex edge. Just something in the way I hold the blade. Not good convex but it looks rather more like a half of a pie. So I have been taking my time and using just enough pressure for the stone to cut. Which leads me to this thread.
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While on vacation last year I took my "traveling" sharpening kit with me--my friends always want me to sharpen their knives. One of the knives I sharpened was a D2 BM 710, that had been carried for a few years without sharpening from a factory bevel, to a ~25° inclusive bevel with a ~35° inclusive microbevel. I even polished the bevels to a 1 micron mirror.
The coarsest stone I had with me was a DMT 2x6 Extra coarse. With good consistent angle control, light pressure, and quick strokes you can easily reprofile even a more wear resistant steel like D2 in under 40 minutes. If all you are after is narrow bevels and an edge taken to ~15 - 7.5 micron grit refinement, then it shouldn't take you more than about 45 minutes.
The coarsest stone I had with me was a DMT 2x6 Extra coarse. With good consistent angle control, light pressure, and quick strokes you can easily reprofile even a more wear resistant steel like D2 in under 40 minutes. If all you are after is narrow bevels and an edge taken to ~15 - 7.5 micron grit refinement, then it shouldn't take you more than about 45 minutes.
Yeah, I think a coarse DMT like a 3" x 8" diasharp will actually do a re-profile job rather quickly, and not leave scratch makrs that aren't too deep. I can't really say I worry about scratch marks though but if you really were worried about that, you could get a finger DMT to throw in after the coarse work so the scratch marks aren't too deep.
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Diamonds , by the very nature of the abrasive , dig deep. Whether its a 140 atoma or an eef dmt. They dig deep.
I use pressure (lots 5+ pds) when i do reprofiles , i can do a folder in about 10-15 mins on the epp , using the 140 atoma. Then i go through the rest of the atomas. Then i drop down to the 220 shapton to start removing those diamond scratches. Otherwise they can come back to haunt you. Even if you use no pressure.
I use pressure (lots 5+ pds) when i do reprofiles , i can do a folder in about 10-15 mins on the epp , using the 140 atoma. Then i go through the rest of the atomas. Then i drop down to the 220 shapton to start removing those diamond scratches. Otherwise they can come back to haunt you. Even if you use no pressure.
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+1 on the Atoma 140. They are a bit more expensive than the DMT stones, but they are worth the increase in cost. The Atoma 140 is very coarse and very fast cutting.
I've jumped to a Chosera 400 after one and it works ok. I'd probably want something a bit coarser, though, as a step in between them as it takes a bit longer than I'd like (really only a few more minutes in truth though).
I've jumped to a Chosera 400 after one and it works ok. I'd probably want something a bit coarser, though, as a step in between them as it takes a bit longer than I'd like (really only a few more minutes in truth though).
I would go insane if it took that long. I am using my DMT Aligner and only have C/F/EF stones, in fact I was thinking of getting the EC stone to speed things up. I just reprofiled another one of my knives a few hours ago took me around 30-40min to reprofile and sharpen. It was a 2.5in 440a blade I reprofiled in my rough rider canoe. It was nothing but quick light pressure strokes and frequent brushing off the stone/blade to keep it clean while I check the angle and make sure I am hitting everything (I use a sharpie).
Just be careful with those courser diamond stones the will take metal off dang fast. I was very surprised when I first used mine. Even if given the option I don't think I would have used an extra extra course stone for that reprofile, an extra course stone would have been the most I might feel comfortable with.
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I'm sure you could do reprofiles on the DMT XXC. It cuts very fast and provides a lot of feedback *because* it cuts so fast. I call it a feedback loop: You do a little work, observe the results, adjust if necessary, and repeat. Because it cuts so fast and the scratch pattern is so obvious, you can make this feedback loop work for you in at a much quicker pace than with a finer stone. I think the XXC has improved my sharpening as a result.
The only question for me is whether or not your AlO2 stone will remove the scratch pattern left behind by the XXC in a reasonable amount of time. I think a coarse India (Norton's brand of AlO2) is around 200 grit, so that *should* work, though I haven't tried it.
Brian.
The only question for me is whether or not your AlO2 stone will remove the scratch pattern left behind by the XXC in a reasonable amount of time. I think a coarse India (Norton's brand of AlO2) is around 200 grit, so that *should* work, though I haven't tried it.
Brian.
I have to give you credit you have far more patience than I do when it comes to sharpening. It makes me wonder what your results are since you take your time on it, I can only imagine how good it comes out.
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Unless you're re-bevelling very big/thick blades, I wouldn't ordinarily feel a need to use anything more than a Coarse diamond bench stone on simpler steels. Even at this grit level, it'll still work very fast (more so, if the stone is wet or otherwise lubricated), and won't leave the edge/bevels with that super-coarse finish that requires additional refinement/cleaning up. I also prefer the smoother feedback on a somewhat less-coarse diamond hone, and I feel it affords better control with a lighter touch.
On small/thin blades in steels like 1095, CV or 420HC/440A, as seen in traditional pocketknives, I usually don't go coarser than a DMT 'Fine' to re-bevel those, even when using pocket-sized hones. I use a DMT Fine 'credit card' for a lot of these; even used it on a D2-bladed Queen folder, and that didn't even take too long, using length-wise back/forth strokes, and/or a circular/oval motion.
The size of the diamond hone will have a great impact on working speed, when using diamond. So, if re-bevelling simpler steels on a bench-sized hone, I seldom see a need to go very coarse at all (assuming the sharpening stroke takes advantage of the length/surface area).
David
On small/thin blades in steels like 1095, CV or 420HC/440A, as seen in traditional pocketknives, I usually don't go coarser than a DMT 'Fine' to re-bevel those, even when using pocket-sized hones. I use a DMT Fine 'credit card' for a lot of these; even used it on a D2-bladed Queen folder, and that didn't even take too long, using length-wise back/forth strokes, and/or a circular/oval motion.
The size of the diamond hone will have a great impact on working speed, when using diamond. So, if re-bevelling simpler steels on a bench-sized hone, I seldom see a need to go very coarse at all (assuming the sharpening stroke takes advantage of the length/surface area).
David
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The part in bold is my problem. I do not have the angle control to make a full back and forth motion with out significantly rounding the bevel. So I work in very, very small strokes. The results I get are good and getting better. But it takes forever this way. It is a trade off. I have always been slow when I sharpen, even when I used the Lansky. I guess I just sharpen slower than some people.
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I've sort of worked around that, by orienting the blade edge at a diagonal to larger/longer stones. In other words, point the tip of the blade toward the opposite corner of the stone, then go back/forth in a scrubbing motion along the stone's length, holding the blade as such. This keeps my wrist straighter and more comfortable, and really cuts down on the to & fro pitching of the blade (spine-to-edge), therefore making it much easier to maintain a steadier angle. Keeping the pad of my index finger as close as possible to the edge portion being worked also helps in feeling flush contact with the bevel. I've previously had a lot of trouble, if attempting to hold the blade perpendicular to the length of the stone during a back/forth stroke.
Practicing this on a smooth piece of glass can help. You can 'feel' the bevel on the glass this way (it'll be very slick & quiet when flush, but will 'grind' in a noisier way if angle is too high/low). Obviously, the smooth glass won't grind up your edge while practicing, either.
BTW, this diagonal orientation of the blade-on-stone also makes it easier to work with coarser grits. Really coarse grit hones will try to 'grab' an edge more aggressively, and that makes it harder to avoid the to/fro pitching of the angle if the edge is perpendicular to the stroke direction. This is much of the reason why I like the combination of a larger hone, with a somewhat less-coarse grit, and the diagonally-oriented stroke. In tandem, these things make the going easier for me, both in angle control and working speed.
David
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David Martin
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This stone is 150 grit. I used it for this and its slow. The SiC coarse stone is 100 grit and I've used it to re-profile S30V and it was slow but not as slow as the coarse India. I've used a X-coarse continuous DMT to re-profile a 9" 440C blade and it seemed slow. If your concerned about time and have deep pockets, I'd go with the continuous XX coarse DMT in as large a plate as they mfg.. If your concerned with economy I'd go with the Norton SiC stone in a coarse / fine, JUM-3. A very good stone for the money. DM
For rebeveling new Slipjoints I use a DMT Aligner
I use it often on new Queen D2 or 1095 carbon blades, as they come with thick bevels
I use from E course to E Fine
And work thru the grades of stone
It is fool proof and gives very constant results
A very fast and easy way of rebeveling
Freehand
Waterstones
I use it often on new Queen D2 or 1095 carbon blades, as they come with thick bevels
I use from E course to E Fine
And work thru the grades of stone
It is fool proof and gives very constant results
A very fast and easy way of rebeveling
Freehand
Waterstones
Do you have any technique suggestions for making a alum oxide stone work faster? Also, is the Norton 220/1000 grit water stone any good?
Thanks,
Charles