Fave steel for kayak/canoeing/backpack knife

K

KnifeChick

Joined
Oct 31, 2000
Messages
16
Hi All,
Just wanted some opinions (cause you guys know your stuff) about what steel you like/use in a knife for kayaking/canoeing, etc.
Edge retention vs staining, rusting, yada yada.
What would you recommend?
Thanks ;)
 
Originally posted by Paracelsus
OK, I think we're done here. Move along people...

:)
Click to expand...

I just can't my two favorte subjects (knives and whitewater) how can I keep moving. :)

Production (Gerber river master)

Custom - Stellite 6K double edged. I prefer a smallish double edged knife in white-water. Mostly due to occasional rafting when I take friends. In an emergency, or if I am circulating in a hydrolic I do not want to think about anything but retaining the knife and cutting what I need to cut. Opening a folder is not something I want to do.

In a kayak or on smooth water a folder is fine. Good white water rescue skills need to be practiced constantly and I made a presonal decision to only use my whitewater knives on white-water.

Where is Rawhide Clyde and HJK?Those guys are pros. I still get rushes in Class V water and do not do Class VI rapids. :D
 
For kayaking and canoeing?

The Camillus Talonite Talon. Say no more. Excellent knife. The only drawback to Talonite and Stellite is that it won't stand up to abuse as well as steel.

My first choice in steel for water sports would be 440C. Very rust resistant and tough. Holds an edge well. For factory knives, AUS8 would be a good choice for very wet conditions too.
 
Hmmm...I carry the same kinds of steels when canoeing as I do when I am hiking...but I do take along an extra Marine Tuf-cloth. I guess I just don't like the idea of going to an ultra-stainless like (regular) 420, when I have to give up the edge-holding and toughness of my existing favorites (BG-42, S30V, A2, D2...). I have never tried Talonite or any of the other cobalt-alloys - I haven't any plans to do so either (unless one is given to me ;)). I guess I have not been convinced (yet) that these materials have enough "extra" to offer me over my current steel choices...and I already own them.
BYI, I currently carry a Lg. Sebenza (BG-42) in a TAD belt pouch whenever I am canoeing or backpacking. This is not the only knife I carry, as I usually also carry a slip-joint whittler and a multitool (Wave)...sometimes a CR Project II :) as well. All my blades get wiped down with a Marine Tuf-cloth and I have never had a corrosion problem... The ultimate test for my Tuf-cloths will be when I take may RMJ talon to the field (there will be salt water in places) and see how well it resists rusting (the talon is 1075 carbon steel).
 
I assume you are talking about freshwater use, not saltwater.

As far as I am concerned, just about any decent stainless steel (all mentioned above) will do fine if you give it a daily potable water rinse and wipe with Tuf-Cloth.

My only caveat is that ATS-34 seems to consistenly present more spot rusting problems (for me) than the others. Maybe this is just a Benchmade thing, I am not certain.

There are lots of good choices in 440C, AUS-8 and G-2, all of which are at the high end of convential stainless technology and are very affordable.

(Postscript: No one has yet brought up the issue of blade finish. From best to worst: Mirror Polish--Stonewash or Satin Finish--Beadblast. Avoid bead blast at all costs. Also, performance and particulars on blade coating vary widely. I don't use coated blades, so have nothing to add there.)
 
I carry a couple of different knives on the river depending on how remote we are and if it's an overnite trip. I always have a Spyderco Harpy in a RiverCity sheath attached to my Swiftwater Rescue PFD. Generally have an Emerson Whitewater in the pocket also. For overnighters I supplement my usual loadout with a fixed blade of some sort. Usually it's a 3.5" to 5.5" fixed blade in a dry bag so I'm not as concerned about rust/staining. If it is a true multi-day trip I will add something big for chopping. Steve had an excellent suggestion...and of course I've lusted over pics of Gus's river knife...of his own design no less! Keep the open side up.
Stay Safe,
Clyde
 
Originally posted by Architect
...I assume you are talking about freshwater use, not saltwater.
Click to expand...

I know that I for one was referring to freshwater use. If I spent a lot of time in (actually 'in') saltwater, I'd probably buy a titanium or Talontite fixed blade. Also, good point (Architect) about a mirror finish being the best (assuming no coatings are used).
 
My personal favorite steel around water..well...actually, my favorite steel period would be VG-10. Seems to take a TERRIFIC bitey kinda edge, hold it very well, and seems pretty rust resistant. have any of you folks encountered problems with it that I haven't yet?
 
My room-mates and I have been using my Spyderco Moran (mirror polished) in the kitchen for several months. It is often wet, and left in the sink or to drip-dry on the rack, and I have yet to see any rust or corrosion.
 
VG-10 seems to be the best edge-holding vs. rust resistance steel (from my own experience) when using around freshwater. I'd probably want to go with talonite or Stellite if I was going to use the knife around saltwater though. Hopefully I'll get to test CPM S30V around water sometime soon.
 
Hi KnifeChick,

I spend a lot of time in a canoe. My 440C folder has never left me needing anything more. It's inexpensive, tough enough, holds an edge well, is very rust & stain resistant, and is easy to sharpen, too. I don't know if there is anything better or not, but 440C is a good choice, for sure.

I will add, though, that I much prefer a fixed blade on any trip into the boonies, for reasons of safety and reliability. Mine currently are all non-stainless type steels, but I always have one with me anyway on a trip, and a little bottle of oil, too. A full tang fixed blade in 440C with sandblasted micarta slabs and a lanyard hole would be about ideal in the canoe, methinks. OK, now its on my shopping list. :)
 
Wow..LOVE the feedback on this forum!! :)
Thanks so much all.

Someone tried to sell me on a 420J2 steel, really pushing the rust resistance factor, but from what I've heard, 420J2 is well, kind of umm, crap, isn't it ? Or just for ornamental stuff, correct? I've always shied away from it, never used it, so I don't really know. Any comments on J2?

It will be used for both fresh and saltwater canoeing and kayaking, so I want to make sure I go with something that is going to be dependable, hold and edge, but not completely rust out on me either.

thanks :)
 
Sorry I'm late :) I don't know how I missed this thread until now.
There is a significant difference between kayaking and canoeing, whether or not you are using a sprayskirt and also whether you are wearing a drysuit & pfd or survival suit etc, because that determines what you can wear and where. But let's talk about the knife itself.

I really don't see too much trouble with any stainless steel on fresh water. Although I like carbon steel much better, you can be out there for a long time unable to clean and dry the knife, especially on expeditions, and nothing I've ever used, Tuff Cloth, Marine Tuff Cloth, Ren Wax, Vegetable Oil, will do the job. At least for me - other guys have more success. The trouble is finding a stainless you like. BG 42 ain't bad. 440V is tough to sharpen. ATS 34 isn't my first choice, but there are some great knives out there in that steel. VG 10, 440C [very underestimated], "stainless 3V": S30V...I guess there are a few good choices for fresh water.

For Salt water - forget it. They all rust too fast. Paracelsus had it 100% bang on. Talonite or Stellite is it.

Neil Blackwood, with the generous design assistance of Gus K, built me a fantastic "River Knife" in Stellite 6K which I use for river and ocean either as a neck knife or lashed to a pfd, depending on what I'm wearing. The top edge is serrated and there is an exposed and slightly flattened tang. A little on the small side for lightness. Fantastic. I also have a standard Blackwood single edge in talonite that I used before the stellite, and still use, and it's a bit bigger and heavier. To tell you the truth, I like the extra size and weight, but most folks may not want too much weight around the neck after 12 hours of slogging. That's fantastic too.

Everything you heard about talonite and stellite [at least if you've been listening to the right folks] is true. No corrosion. Cuts like stink[lubricity!]. Holds a working edge forever. Easy to sharpen. The only potential flaw is that it isn't that hard and may not do well resisting impacts or torque I was worried that this would make it lousy for hard ice in the Arctic or Antarctic, so I take a Busse and mostly carry it on deck or in my deck bag [I should use an ice ax but Busse don't make one :)][Ice or no ice, I always like a bigger knife close to hand, but that's another story]

I don't know enough to give an informed opinion about stellite vs talonite. I have one "river" knife of each but frankly I haven't used them enough to have seen a real difference between the two! Thems who do know. Rob Simonich, Kit Carson, Dr. Lathe,Cliff Stamp, & others have expressed their views elsewhere. Kit Carson said he strongly favours Stellite 6k, which is why I asked Dr Lathe to do the custom in that material. But either material is perfect for a canoeing/kayaking knife on fresh or salt water.

And BTW, despite the compliments, I ain't no expert. I've just been extraordinarily lucky :)

edited for spelink
 
A knife used for rescue in whitewater is different than one used for food preparation or camp duties, and should not be used for dual duty. I've been in a rescue situation or two, three, four.... in my years kayaking, and blade shape, sharpness, and cutting efficiency are more important than blade steel per se. I've found that serrated hawkbills work best for me, but whatever knife you choose, the sheath system needs to be set up for immediate access, with retention good enough to survive a Class V swim or "maytag" session in a hydraulic. Lanyards, leashes, etc., should be avoided because of entanglement possibilities and I'd sure as hell hate to have a loose blade follow me around while getting "trashed" in a hole. There is also the chance of dropping the knife in the water (or you may need to toss it across the water to your buddy who didn't bring one), so I don't recommend anything costing more than $100, but that's an individual choice.

Clyde,

Need a fix - hook up with you soon.

SYOTR
 
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