Feel like I'm chasing this damn burr from side to side!

[peacefuljeffrey]

When I sharpen my knives lately (they're mostly small-to-medium folders) and I get the edges nice and sharp and just about finished, it seems like I spend *forever* just chasing the tiniest, narrowest (possibly inconsequential but I'm obsessed) BURR from SIDE to SIDE!

I am using a technique that I figured out, where I hold the blade near eye level with the edge away from me, and shine a blue LED light at it, also facing away. A burr shows up as a distinct glowing line at the edge.

While I am stroking on a ceramic Spyderco whetstone as *lightly* as possible, every time I stroke this tiny burr off one side, it appears on the *other* side (and is clearly eliminated from the stroked side). Then when I *lightly* stroke on the burred side, it gets cleared and the burr is back on the first side. Over and over.
Every stroke or two I check and switch sides. And usually after a great long while, I feel satisfied that there is no burr on *either* side, and the knife is officially finished being sharpened and is okay to carry.

Am I getting too crazy about this tiny burr? I have no way of knowing if anyone else even *looks* for this tiny degree of burr, or if anyone else would even *call* this a burr. Maybe everyone's "sharp" knives have this, and I'm being unrealistically stringent. I don't know! What I'm calling a burr here really can be seen only with this blue LED technique. In naked room light, there looks to be no burr at all, and it certainly does not *feel* like it's there. Does anyone know if I'm taking this too far?

I am subscribing to the philosophy of the FAQ that in essence says, "Don't cop-out and strop a blade that you should be able to get sharp strictly on the hone." But I did try stropping a couple of knives when they had this tiny burr on them and *it did not disappear or diminish noticeably* with the strop, either! At this point, I feel like saying "strops don't do squat!" It's hard to see any effect from the stropping I've done (leather strop with paste from Knifecenter.com).

Anyone else experiencing this?

---Jeffrey

 

[Nic Ramirez]

From what it sounds like, you might be using too steep of an angle. Try widening the angle between the blade and the ceramic so you don't make too fine an edge.

As the knife will wear too fast and need sharpening more often.

Also try loading the strop with a mild abrasive like CrO.

Good luck-

 

[Boink]

Originally posted by Nic Ramirez
From what it sounds like, you might be using too steep of an angle. Try widening the angle between the blade and the ceramic so you don't make too fine an edge.

As the knife will wear too fast and need sharpening more often.

Also try loading the strop with a mild abrasive like CrO.

Good luck-

Sounds like a plan! Ditto here.

 

[Jason Cutter]

I suggest the same thing. Many of the very wear resistant, high alloy steels esp. will hold that wire edge for quite a while. Stropping with a hard leather pad - rub lots of green or white bufffing compound into the surface.

You're right to worry about the burr as it gives a false impression of the actualy sharpness of the blade. In fact, the wire edge doesn't do many things well, just keeps folding over and not biting into anything. So you just keep unnecessarily grinding, honing away more and more steel. Once you get the wire edge, you've created an edge already... you just need to get rid of that flaky bit that clings to the actualy cutting edge... I say again - STROP !!

Cheers. Jason.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

peacefuljeffrey :

Am I getting too crazy about this tiny burr?

Use the knife with and without the burr and see if you notice a difference.

But I did try stropping a couple of knives when they had this tiny burr on them and *it did not disappear or diminish noticeably* with the strop, either!

Yes as this is the worst way to remove a burr.

Burr problems are often caused by weak steel at the edge, caused by heavy use or corrosion. After you finish the initial rough honing, it is ESSENTIAL to remove the heavy burr that will form. If you just switch to finer hones and continue, the burr will stick around forever and just flop from side to side.

After you finish any grit check the level of burr formation, if it is any way significant, the first couple of passes on the next fine hone should be very light and at an elevated angle, this should lop off most, if not all of the heavy burr.

Some steels are however very difficult to form a crisp edge, anything soft is bad, especially if it is highly alloyed with lots of carbides at the same time. Those steels are usually not worth high polishes anyway as they roll readily as so as you cut something.

-Cliff

 

[The Tourist]

I have a friend that likes Emerson Commanders. He sharpens on one side with an Edge-Pro until he has a burr so big you can see it!

He just cuts things until it improves. He shrugs, a knife is a tool.

 

[Don M]

I seem to notice this phenomena more with my DMT stones than I do with my Arkansas stones, perhaps because the DMT removes metal a lot faster. I reprofiled a couple of Queen blades, which I needed to do on the DMT because of the hardness (D2). The wire edge would not go away. I also blame this for a very unexpected result when I tested the blade against a number of others in a cardboard cutting test. It lost the shaving edge quite soon, much more rapidly than I expected. But it kept on cutting well to the end of the test (until I got tired of cutting cardboard, 120 ft each blade). I think the wire edge was giving a false feeling of sharpness, and it quickly rolled or broke off, but there was enough of an edge left that it continued to cut well even though it did not feel all that sharp.

 

[Jeff Clark]

I learned about burrs in elementary school while sharpening Popsicle sticks by rubbing them on the sidewalk. The more material you remove the longer your burr becomes. The shallower your honing angle (the more accute you are making your edge) the greater your tendency to form a burr. If you hone with the edge-trailing (in a stropping direction) you tend to form more of a burr. You have to change your angle of attack to remove the burr and hone edge forwards.

Say that you have been thinning your edge by honing at a little under 15-degrees per side. You have gone from your medium grit hone to your fine hone. Now you have a burr. Go back to your medium grit hone and increase your angle to about 45-degrees. Lightly hone edge first alternating side-to-side for just about 4 strokes per side. Now look at what you have with your LED. If you have a significant visible burr repeat the process. Be sure that you are stroking lightly because you are now changing your edge's included angle from 30-degrees to 90-degrees and you are going to have to go back at a later step and reduce the angle again.

When your burr is essentially gone you need to finish your edge. Set your hone back to 15-degrees and do a few light strokes on alternating sides using your medium grit. Do about as many strokes as you did at 45-degrees. Then adjust your honing angle to about 20-degrees and do about 5 strokes per side (alternating sides). Now repeat the last two steps (15-degrees and 20-degrees) using your fine hones. You should be burr free and sharp at this point. You may do a little more honing with the fine hones if your edge isn't quite refined yet and/or you might strop at this point. The key is to not hone too much after your deburring step. (And do all honing after the deburring step with the edge-forwards).

For touchup you should do most work with your medium grit hones, but try and remove the minimum amount of material. Don't work just one side to raise a burr if you are just doing touchup. Always work alternating sides and check as you go. Once you feel or see that you are basically sharp finish with your fine hone. If you want a coarser slicing edge finish with a few light strokes on your medium hone at 20-degrees.