Feeling the GROOVE!

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Yes feeling the groove!
What I am asking for I guess is some help on getting started. I have a 10" contact wheel and I am grinding on my 5th blank (I mean this is my 5th blank ever
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)I keep winding up past the lines I scribed for the width of the grind. I am grinding with the blade facing up and the center marked. Please help with some ideas on the best way to start the groove so I can stay in the lines and get one consistant groove across the blade
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I start at the edge and grind it to the scribe line. Then just work the grind down the blade to what will be the top of the grind. I've learned one important thing, when you get to the line, stop. And don't go back to it because the other side doesn't match it perfectly, because odds are you'll start the creep. Thats where you start creeping the top of the grind higher and higher by trying to match the sides. Then you end up with some wasted time and some more store bought steel in the trash can. Practice alot ond if it's not working out good, get some junk steel and practice some more. Don't be too overly critical of your work either. Thats a killer for sure, and I know it for a fact!!!! Take care!! Michael

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Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
 
the hard part is that even though you are looking down on the center line and know where to stop, the other side of your grind is being done blind, and the only way to get it down is lots of practice.....after 18 years i still constantly take the knife off the wheel and look at the grind that is near the top of the knife blade to make sure i am keeping it straight.....put the steel to the wheel (bob lum quote)

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Those are good answers.

Over the years I've trained many people to grind. Only had 2 that I recall that were natural born grinders. The rest of them got the same advice - Keep grinding. The more you do, the better you get. More of a confidence thing, I believe.

I'm like Tom. I constantly check where the grind is at and look down the sides, from the point end to check for balanced grind lines.

Find some cheap flat bar steel and cut and grind until you are comfortable, then do it some more.
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I practiced on wood when I first started a few years back and after just doing my first hollow grind here recently, I practiced on wood again. I just used a 60 grit belt and ground on a 1/4 piece of scrap wood. It is fast, easy, cheap and I learned from it. If you mess up, it is no big deal. Aluminum would work as well. I have found the initial grind is most critical. Once you get that down, it is just staying in the groove.

C Wilkins

C Wilkins
 
You may be handicapping yourself a little with that 10" wheel. It is harder to stay in the groove with the larger wheel. The reason is that there is less groove to stay in with the larger wheel; the grinds are necessarily more shallow.

Another point worth mentioning is, don't rush. Take your time. My biggest trouble getting started was thinking I should be done in 10 minutes. Go slow.

Another thing. I think you'll find that the rougher the belt the easier it is to get and stay in the groove. I recommend a 36 grit belt for most of your grinding, using the others only to level and sand.

My opnions only, we all do it a little differently.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Thanks guys. I also have a 6" wheel i think I will try that and see how it goes. I did buy about 40' of 5160 that should keep out of trouble for awhile. Maybe not
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You guys are right, I will keep practicing.
I guess the hardest part is to have patience with yourself and realise that there is a learning curve to this the same as any other skill.
 
I agree with everyone,great advice guys I just wanna add a few things .
What kind of grinder do you have ? is it varriable speed ? if not it will take you twice as long to learn and fine grit belts are all but useless .
I like to make sure my contact wheel is positioned just about center with my belly button. I also use a push stick which is nothing more than a 1x11/2x4" piece of hickory or oak (something hard) I cut a notch out of the front to lay the back of my blade against. This stick will control the width of your grind by heal or toe pressure (up or down pressure) against the contact wheel to grind wider apply heal pressure to the push stick to nutralize the grind use neutral pressure and to grind your blade thinner use toe (forward pressure)on the push stick.
With your legs shoulders width apart and your body centered with your grinder lock your wrists against your stomach(advantage of bieng a fat bastard )and with a fresh 3M 977 60G belt on medium speed feed your blade edge up into the grinding wheel and rock from side to side with your hips keeping your torso level and grind . Check your grinds often if you start to grind to wide lift the back of your push stick slightly to centralize your grind, feel is everything your other hand is a guide hand it should mimic the push stick hand and not dominate.
also know when to quit,meaning when your done your done move on to the next grit .To many new guys try to get everything perfect with the 60 grit when they should move to a 150 grit to smooth out there plunge and radiuses.Make sure you've addressed everything and and not over done it befor moving on to the next grit .
practice practice practice and just when you think you'll never get it you'll switch that machine on and grind like a pro .

don't get discouraged,if you want it bad enough you won't stop till you get it.

hope I've helped.
Aloha!!! Ken Onion
 
That is some REAL great info there Ken-
BTW-

What is a good value for money in a variable speed grinder? (Be as specific as possible)
Is $500 gonna cover it?

Thanks

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Great reply Ken
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I do have a variable speed grinder and man am I glad I spent the extra bucks! It is worth it.
I am letting my hand dominate the grind angle. I didn't relize it until reading your reply Thanks.
I am using a push stick although I am using a short one, seems to give a little better feel. Why do you recomend a hardwood push stick, better tranfer of feeling the grind? I will try letting the push stick do the controling tomorrow and post the results. Ta Ta
 
well ken isnt quite as fat as me thats why i can grind better!!!!!! but seriously, one thing i used to do often was push TOO HARD, you dont need to push hard...but you do need to hold the knife STILL, that is lock your elbows and keep it in the same plane as you go back and forth, same plane horizontally and keep in line with the front of the wheel. these are the things that make a good knife grind and take a considerable amount of practice to accomplish...as bob loveless once said, after about 200 you start to get the idea....morelike 1000 if you ask me.

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
That is also something I was doing Tom. I was pushing like I had to get to depth in one stroke. WRONG I am backing off and letting the grinder do the work. I am working on killing those nerve endings though
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Once you burn off enough skin that it finally turns to asbestos and you've destroyed all the nerve endings in your thumbs, this gets a whole lot easier. My thumbs are my push sticks, and since they will eventually burn, that makes me stop, dip the steel in the bucket, check the grind, and start again. This also makes me go slowly and smoothly since going faster means more pain and less work before the sizzle. Plus it keeps me from overheating the steel after it is heat treated, again the thumbs are my thermostats.

I've often told folks just getting into this that handling the pain was half the battle. They usually look at me like I'm nuts, which is true, but the advice is sound.

I don't own a variable speed grinder, though I plan to before long. I use my Wilton for hogging steel (initial grinds) and it's small wheel attachment. I use my anemic old Blademaster, which has a nice long horizontal platen, for tang tapering and finish grinding. Whatever you use, your equipment will teach you how you are going to make knives. Your technique will naturally evolve around that equipment, though I certainly agree with Ken that a variable speed grinder would make this a whole lot easier to do and control.

That advice about locking your elbows into your sides can not be over-emphasized. Since I started doing swords recently where I have to hold the steel out further, I have been painfully reminded how nice it is to use your whole body and not just your arms and back. More pain... it never ends.
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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
joe, sorry, but you won't be able to find a variable speed grinder in that range, most are in the $1700- $2100 range, some are even more. you could buy a regular grinder with a step pulley though. it'll be less expensive, but not as easy to change speed, and not as much speed change available.

[This message has been edited by magnum .44 (edited 04-30-2000).]
 
Joe,
I could not spend a large amount
on a grinder,so i got a Coote grinder
and bought a 1hp Lesson motor and
belt drove it i use different size pullies
to speed it up and slow it down,You have almost as much control over the speed as
a variable, at half the cost I work all the way up tp a 6 inch pullie on mine and i can slow it down a great amount,I use a 2 ich
4 inch and 6 inch on my grinder sidw
and i have a great set up,I have around 600
max into it.
 
Tom, my organic toolrest is bigger than yours or Ken's. Does that mean I grind better than you guys? Darrel and Larry Harley must be the best grinders on the planet
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Thanks for all the suggestions thats why I tell everyone I ever talk knives with about Bladeforum
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GAKNIFE
You must have really wide hips to be able to sway that far and keep a straight line
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just kiddin. Nice blade!
 
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