Fehrman knives -a tang question?

[Franco G]

I was always thinking that Fehrman knives, at least Last Chance, First Strike, etc., were a full tang knives. As a matter of fact, they are. However, they have, at least one of them, a strongly skeletonized tang.

On a Croatian survival forum it was posted that a man tried to reprofile a handle - as a result his handle (because of skeleton tang) became weak and the following photo shows the consequence

There is a link with a discussion in Croatian language - however, the photos are quite 'graphic' so everyone can follow what happened. A Croatian knife maker took the knife to repair it and one can see the procedure:

http://survival.aforumfree.com/t3929-fehrman-extreme-judgment

My questions to Eric:

1. Have the First Strike and Last Chance the skeleton tangs too? the same holes?

2.How the skeleton tang reflects on the sturdiness of survival knives in question? Could one hang on the knife (imagine a survival situation on rocks) without a fear the knife would break?

I am sure Eric would give us answers that support my confidence in Fehrman tools although I must say I am astonished with a fact that the Extreme Judgment has a skeleton tang. Whatever the answer were - with a really full tang a knife should be stronger.

Am I missing something?

Franco

 

[HandofCod]

Why would you reprofile the handle and then expect the now paper thin tang to remain sturdy. I'd be more concerned if the tang broke under normal conditions but since it looks like someone was taken a good 1cm off the width of the handle I'm struggling to see what the issue is here...

 

[Franco G]

Well, my questions are rather clear:

1. How much a skeleton construction weakens the knife strength (if at all)?

2. do ALL Fehrman knives (First Strike and Last Chance in particular) have a skeleton tang too?

P. S. I understood that a Croatian guy wanted to reprofile a handle - he was wrongly assumed a tang was a really full tang.
I think my two questions above are quite legitimate - I want to know the answers.

 

[Gravelface]

I will check when I get home. But I would think someone modifying the handles would have taken them off first to examine it prior to grinding.....


Plain and simple...this guy was careless.....

 

[Cotherion]

How was it fixed? Anyone know Croatian?

 

[mogmz]

Obviously with any piece of steel, the more metal you remove the more strength you remove, but I wouldn't be concerned with breaking a Fehrman knife unless, like the picture you posted, I modified the tang to what appears to be the thickness of pencil lead.

2.How the skeleton tang reflects on the sturdiness of survival knives in question? Could one hang on the knife (imagine a survival situation on rocks) without a fear the knife would break?

Franco

 

[christobal]

The Fehrman LC, FS and FJ have an identical skeleton handle, I have used these models for several years and I never encountered problem .

 

[Irezumi]

I will check when I get home. But I would think someone modifying the handles would have taken them off first to examine it prior to grinding.....


Plain and simple...this guy was careless.....

+1 ....I think Fehrman need make no response to this thread. They ground off so much metal not even adamantium could avoid getting broken in half!

 

[Franco G]

I think, Irezumi, you missed a point - the guy who ground off so much metal never complained about the knife. He acknowledged his mistake - actually, everyone on this Croatian forum praised the design and construction of Fehrman knives including myself.

It is me who is interested to get answers to some questions I quoted. I believe there is a reason why Eric makes these holes - I doubt it is because of weight.

So it is not a question: why that particular knife was broken - it is rather obvious - but a question about the reasons to drill holes. After all, these holes do not make a knife much lighter, so why?

I am not badmouthing Fehrman knives - I am a fan as I said.

 

[HandofCod]

I think, Irezumi, you missed a point - the guy who ground off so much metal never complained about the knife. He acknowledged his mistake - actually, everyone on this Croatian forum praised the design and construction of Fehrman knives including myself.

It is me who is interested to get answers to some questions I quoted. I believe there is a reason why Eric makes these holes - I doubt it is because of weight.

So it is not a question: why that particular knife was broken - it is rather obvious - but a question about the reasons to drill holes. After all, these holes do not make a knife much lighter, so why?

I am not badmouthing Fehrman knives - I am a fan as I said.

In my experience makers only skeletonise the tang to improve balance and also to remove weight. There is a thread over on the Busse subforum about the new design of the light Argonne assault. Jerry discusses why he has dramatically altered the tang.

 

[Gress]

This is the tang on my Peace Maker

The tang is just right. It provides extremely balanced feel for this size of the knife. It is as strong as you may need and it is a 3v.

 

[KyleyHarris]

It is me who is interested to get answers to some questions I quoted. I believe there is a reason why Eric makes these holes - I doubt it is because of weight.

Actually, It's almost entirely because of weight, or more importantly where the weight is. A large part of making a good knife is the weight distribution which effects the balance and the feel for the knife. Until very recently in knifemaking history full tang as we think of it hardly existed. Swords and knives were generally Rat-Tail peened through the pommel. This normally leaves a lot of the weight forward and by the time you add your handles creates a nicely balanced blade.

I would say that more blades than you imagine are skeletonized. if not skeletonized, then Tapered tangs. The only time I ever leave weight in a handle by leaving it solid is if the blade size or weight is large enough that I need the weight in the handle, which saves me adding a bolster, or pommel weight to a chopper etc.

As to strength.. If you over-skeletonize then certainly you can get a failure, as was shown by this example of grinding it down. In-General though, drilling holes, or taking out a centre chunk wont weaken the integrity of the knife in any way that will matter. How thin I'd leave the side walls would also be dependant on those side walls thickness. Steel is a lot stronger/Tougher than many think. Its kind of like an I-Beam in construction. Certainly an I-beam is not as strong as a solid bar, but its a lot lighter, and its Stiffness does not change because thats based on thickness. so a skeletonized tang wont bend laterally any easier than a solid tang. it is more suceptible to Twisting stresses.. but by the time a handle is secured and bolstering the tang its almost moot. Also, most stresses on a knife are not in the handle, unless your technique is wrong.

While a Tapered tang can look good, I'll take a skeletonized one every time. This is because the forces on any normal knife will not be great enough to stress the blade in the normal direction of use, but a tapered tang in prying is far more flexible than a solid skeleton tang which imposes higher stresses on the Glue, and the handle scales..

 

[Gress]

Exactly Kyley.
And besides they offer a secret chamber
My K9 Dingo